NYC Bikers chase down SUV

[Rich46yo]

THE Legal expert. http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/03/opinion/cevallos-motorbike-bias/index.html

First, in the video, a motorcyclist appears to deliberately slow down in front of the SUV, which then collides with the cycle. The law in most states presumptively holds the rear ending vehicle liable. If the driver in front makes a sudden stop, that can overcome this presumption. But in the case of rear enders, even defense attorneys will often concede liability, so it's certainly possible that a jury could find Lien completely at fault for an accident.

And OUR Legal expert. 

Wrong. The motorcycle purposely struck the RR with his wheel. What part of "attack" don't you understand?

THE Legal expert.

If it's proven that Lien ran over Mieses, he could be considered a "fleeing felon." New York, like other states, criminalizes leaving the scene of a motor vehicle accident. In a case like this, in which someone is seriously injured, flight is a potential felony. So was Lien fleeing for his life, or was he a fleeing felon?

Third, it's true that a lot of bikers gave chase. Was this alone permissible? In New York, a citizen acting on his own may use non-deadly force to prevent the escape of a person who has committed a crime. Lien's tires were slashed and his windows bashed in. Was that appropriate force? Those acts themselves are non-deadly. If so, were the bikers apprehending a fleeing criminal within the law?

And OUR Legal expert. 

Why did the bike come to a complete stop in front of Lein's vehicle?   You know damn well why.
Why did his punk buddies lay their bikes down in front of Lein's vehicle?   You know damn well why.

I know traffic laws but you seem to be posting with an angle of being the devil's advocate.

The cripple/everyone else on bikes committed multiple traffic violations each and one of the morons was dumb enough to not only film it, but post it.   The cripple was unlicensed.   But please, keep trying to tap dance on a landmine.

[Gustav]

But as drivers slowed and pulled to the right to let the motorcyclists pass, the Range Rover remained in the center lane, the video appears to show. The first crash occurred as a rider slowed to a near-stop in front of the S.U.V.

The video does not clearly depict the actions of the motorcyclists at that point. But the police said the driver of the S.U.V., Alexian Lien, 33, quite likely feared for his safety as he sat in the vehicle with his wife and 2-year-old daughter — his car stopped and surrounded. One of the riders smashed the Range Rover’s driver side mirror, the police said.

Leaving the scene of an accident can be justified if the driver feels threatened by a menacing mob, prosecutors said. “If you are being physically threatened, the law doesn’t contemplate that you have to remain at the scene,” said Maureen McCormick, a former vehicular crimes prosecutor in Brooklyn.

The man who turned himself in, Allen Edwards, can be seen in the video pounding on the S.U.V. with his hands as another rider smashes the driver’s side window with his helmet, the police said. Mr. Edwards, 42, of Jamaica, Queens, was present when Mr. Lien was assaulted, the police said. He was charged with reckless endangerment, criminal mischief and menacing.

The motorcyclist who was arrested, Christopher Cruz, 28, of Passaic, N.J., was charged on Tuesday with reckless driving, reckless endangerment, endangering the welfare of a child and menacing.

Still sounds like the RR driver is a fleeing criminal as your "Legal Expert" wants to claim?

Also looking at the guys youtube channel there are other videos of the same group attacking others. One video having them punching a passenger of a car through an open window cause the driver didn't move out of their way. and another where they attack an old lady's car cause they ran a red light and she nearly hit them.

These punks feel like they own the road, and its pretty pathetic that you want to defend them.

[guncrasher]

Still sounds like the RR driver is a fleeing criminal as your "Legal Expert" wants to claim?

Also looking at the guys youtube channel there are other videos of the same group attacking others. One video having them punching a passenger of a car through an open window cause the driver didn't move out of their way. and another where they attack an old lady's car cause they ran a red light and she nearly hit them.

These punks feel like they own the road, and its pretty pathetic that you want to defend them.

dude they arent all criminals, some are law abiding police officers and correction officers who have joined that club.  of course they joined "while going undercover".  and according to the wife the "hover round" candidate, so were fed ex employees and lots of other who were investigating a bunch of hooligans.

one more example of why I begining to believe in karma.


semp

[rpm]

I'm curious what Rich would have done in the same situation with a gang attacking his family. Sit there and let them attack his family because he'll get a ticket if he resists? This is not a traffic accident, it is a terrorist attack. Why is that so danged hard to understand? The bikers didn't even have the right to be on the street without license and insurance. The family showed overwhelming restraint in not taking out more of the thugs. They only took out the necessary minimum to escape.

[guncrasher]

I'm curious what Rich would have done in the same situation with a gang attacking his family. Sit there and let them attack his family because he'll get a ticket if he resists? This is not a traffic accident, it is a terrorist attack. Why is that so danged hard to understand? The bikers didn't even have the right to be on the street without license and insurance. The family showed overwhelming restraint in not taking out more of the thugs. They only took out the necessary minimum to escape.

that is not fair regarding what rich would you have done.   what would you have done?



semp

[CAP1]

that is not fair regarding what rich would you have done.   what would you have done?



semp

read back a few pages. a few of us have said what we'd have done. i would not have even slowed down for captain brakecheck. i'd have not left the highway. i'd have not stopped for anyone/anything short of a uniformed officer in a marked cruiser.

[RngFndr]

Hold fast your tongue!  Ever consider that they were under cover and investigating some of the very thugs involved?  Ever consider that there were 30+ vs the 1 or 2 of them and they may not even have known each other (sound like being on the receiving end of a squeakop horde in the MA)?  Ever consider that neither of the LEO's were armed, or had a phone, or had any other means to do anything but step in and protect the guy at the last moment before serious injuries?  Point being is that we have no idea and will probably never know, so be very careful in taking the liberty in assuming that they could have waded right on in and not only stopped the bellybutton woopin' but hauled all of the perps to jail.  Until you've walked a mile in their shoes, or been in a similar situation, it is best to keep your mind open.  And even then...    

Hot Damn, you sound like excuse central!
Do you work for John McCain???

[guncrasher]

read back a few pages. a few of us have said what we'd have done. i would not have even slowed down for captain brakecheck. i'd have not left the highway. i'd have not stopped for anyone/anything short of a uniformed officer in a marked cruiser.

yeah but what about rpm? 


semp

[rpm]

that is not fair regarding what rich would you have done.   what would you have done?

The same as the family did, but with less hesitation.

[Widewing]

THE Legal expert. http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/03/opinion/cevallos-motorbike-bias/index.html
And OUR Legal expert. 
THE Legal expert.
And OUR Legal expert. 

All BS.... The video clearly shows that the Lien had every reason to believe that his family and himself were in a life threatening situation. NYPD and the District Attorney have stated that no charges will be brought. Except for the undercover cops who were there and did nothing. They are likely to be suspended, or even fired. I know, you would have written Lien a ticket or three... Standing over the bleeding and battered driver, "license, registration and insurance card, please." Your reasoning shows me that you're exactly the type of cop I don't want on my streets. I have two brothers on the job, county sheriff and county PD. Both have stated that they believe that Lien did what he had to do... That dirtbag who got run over for blocking the SUV... 12 page rap sheet, dealing drugs, illegal handgun and much more. Yeah, he wanted to detain Lien in the interest of justice.... I hope he enjoys his colostomy bag.

[guncrasher]

The same as the family did, but with less hesitation.

but you werent there. it's all "what if" .



semp

[MrRiplEy[H]]

dude they arent all criminals, some are law abiding police officers

Are there such things?

[Rich46yo]

What would I have done? Seriously? I'll try and keep this to one liners so Im not mis quoted by the trolls.

I remember the date but not the year. It was a Sept. 1 over 20 years ago, I remember cause I was going home after Dove opener which is always Sept. 1 and I had my vizsla with me.

And OTW home I saw a traffic altercation with a big group around it, "my old neighborhood had gone to mostly pakistani and India immigrants". A Indian man and his son had gotten into a car accident with a group of Pakistanis and they were beating the snot out of them with bats and sticks in the street with a big Paki crowd egging them on. "I guess the two groups dont get along to well".

What to do? No cell phones. No back up. Only my little .38 snub in my pocket with one reload. And sure as hell not wanting to get in an OD incident cause the Dept. despises when one of us does so.

So I did the only thing I could do. I drew my .38, jumped out of my truck with my bird dog, and acted so crazy i scared the crowd into retreating and the offenders to run, "apprehending one". I got one citizen to make it to the pay phone and call in the 10-1. Actually I think they were more scared of the dog. Heres my former Police/Dove dog.

What would I have done here? Seeing a guy dragged out of a car by a few with a mob around? Probably the same. Dont ask me why, $80,000 a year aint worth it and you still get insulted and belittled all the time anyways. Most of all by little trolls on the internet.

But that piece of paper created in 1787 is pretty clear on the rights of Americans. Even those who ride MCs. They to have the right to life and liberty, and even more important "due process". And I take oaths pretty seriously.

Somehow a couple of these legal eagles have convinced others here Ive said the bikers are right and the driver wrong. It must be the paragraphs. Some people find them hard to get thru so I'll use one liners here.

I dont know who is right or wrong or if both are. And neither do you. All involved have the right to due process and impartial treatment. God help us when were all at the mercy of street corner video cameras alone for justice.

So....thats what "I" have done. Now go ahead and call me a Liar, misquote me, and insult my career choice like a good little troll. The US Constitution gives you that right.

[Scherf]

That's as good an answer as any, Rich. I apologise if I got hot under the collar in this thread, wasn't aimed at you.

 

[GScholz]

See Rules #4, #6