Sorry State of Affairs!

[Ack-Ack]

Last night, 10-1-13, the 94th Bomb Group flew a re-enactment mission to the Knights strats. NOE, with three different groups, approaching from 3 different directions, not one iota of a dar bar showing anywhere in the 3 different sections we were in. Half way to the target, we are bounced by 2 262's, number's of other fighters and entire force of 33 bombers were shot down and I think about 90% of the fighters, who were low and heavy!
Problem was, we had a couple of people on our VOX channel, who after the mission launched, joined the knights and I guess they were in on the slaughter. I won't mention any names, because I wasn't inside their head and could't see what they were thinking. Maybe it was just bad timing, but to have three different groups in three different sectors, all getting jumped by a number of fighters, when there was no way anyone could know we were coming, because no dar bar was showing, so someone had to be listening to our VOX communication about where we were going.
what makes those kind of people "tick" is beyond me! In my opinion, this is one more reason for channel 200 being shut down. Once we were bounced by the first 262, as if by magic, other fighters swarmed in for the kill of the B-24's which were at 65 feet AGL I don't have a problem with someone discovering a flight of bombers and announcing that on the VOX channel in use at the time, but the ability to tell everyone in Aces High what is happening, anywhere on the map in play is, I don't even know how to express the wrong in that. I personally have never tuned channel 200 since I have been in this game, because the unknown as to what is ahead is one of the excitements of the game.
We did return at high altitude and damaged the strats considerably, and was a fun mission and even with the large dar bars showing our position, hardly any fighters came up to contest the space in the skies with us! But, knowing all those buffs and fighters were NOE, a lot of people were rubbing their hands and saying, "oh boy, fish in a barrel"!

I was on last night when this mission was run against us and it was detected by some of us that then called out the mission on country channel.

I was the first to call out the mission as I noticed a 'dar bar that had been steadily traveling across a couple of sectors.  Because of the time the 'dar bar took to move from sector to sector, I figured out it was most likely bombers and the path seemed to be headed to our strats or the base closest to the strats.  Watching the 'dar bar travel, the enemy mission had traveled far enough into one sector that some dots would appear on 'dar and then quickly disappear a few seconds later.  This is a pretty good indicator that the pilots were trying to stay under 'dar and some weren't doing a very good job of it and I called out a NOE mission.  I made the mistake, since the few dots that would appear briefly seemed to be on a path to the base near the strats, called out the NOE mission target as the base.  A few minutes later, someone else on the Knight side correctly ID'd the target as the strats and repeatedly called out a NOE raid on the strats, which caused a number of Knights to drop what they were doing and intercept the NOE strat raiders.  At no time did anyone that was previously on the Rookie side call out your mission to bust it, it was busted because the pilots in your mission weren't able to stay below 'dar and gave away your location and some of us know how to read the 'dar to identify raids and attacks such as this.

ack-ack

[ink]

I was on last night when this mission was run against us and it was detected by some of us that then called out the mission on country channel.

I was the first to call out the mission as I noticed a 'dar bar that had been steadily traveling across a couple of sectors.  Because of the time the 'dar bar took to move from sector to sector, I figured out it was most likely bombers and the path seemed to be headed to our strats or the base closest to the strats.  Watching the 'dar bar travel, the enemy mission had traveled far enough into one sector that some dots would appear on 'dar and then quickly disappear a few seconds later.  This is a pretty good indicator that the pilots were trying to stay under 'dar and some weren't doing a very good job of it and I called out a NOE mission.  I made the mistake, since the few dots that would appear briefly seemed to be on a path to the base near the strats, called out the NOE mission target as the base.  A few minutes later, someone else on the Knight side correctly ID'd the target as the strats and repeatedly called out a NOE raid on the strats, which caused a number of Knights to drop what they were doing and intercept the NOE strat raiders.  At no time did anyone that was previously on the Rookie side call out your mission to bust it, it was busted because the pilots in your mission weren't able to stay below 'dar and gave away your location and some of us know how to read the 'dar to identify raids and attacks such as this.

ack-ack

not for nothing...but................ .............. booooyaaaaa

[Fulcrum]

But 'spies' are so much easier to blame than applying a little self critique and evaluation of mistakes.....







Sorry...I'm just having a difficult time generating any sympathy for the poor unfortunates who took part...

[dedalos]

These guys in here tickle me! All they want to do is shoot down a/c or blow up tanks! They could care less about historical events which I try to re-enact in the MLW arena, and don't bother about the scenario's, they are OK if that is your bag. Personally, I like to plan the mission, fly the mission and am greatly disappointed if I don't get all my bombers home safe. But I forget sometimes, this is just a game, where you point guns or bombs at something, blow it up or shoot it down, get just as much good feeling as shooting BB guns down at the trash dump, killing rats.
I just try to give the guys a little different taste for the "game" and make it interesting to attend our squad night missions! Sorry if that distrubes some people, who only want to furball or tank battles.
What I do when I run up on a set of enemy bombers, or a enemy CV, I put it out on country in the text buffer, I don't alert everybody in all three countries on 200. I just think that is NOT the way the game should be played!

So, I assume that for this historical event you planed, you included the defenders right?  Because if you didn't, it was just an NOE mission no matter what you call it.

[whiteman]

when i was playing ridiculous hours each month and numbers were higher finding noes wasn't that hard, still shouldn't be. only takes one person that can't stay low to give it away, or a CV in the area or blind luck of flying over a mission.

[Dragon]

when i was playing ridiculous hours each month and numbers were higher finding noes wasn't that hard, still shouldn't be. only takes one person that can't stay low to give it away, or a CV in the area or blind luck of flying over a mission.

Having been on both sides of this, it is exhilarating either way.  NOE to strats.............bad idea.............always!

[Triton28]

Unless it's a bunch of guys who do it often, NOE for more than a sector is just asking for busted props or dar flashes. 

What do you have to be under anyway?  50ft?

[croduh]

Few days ago I was at 80-100 feet and friendlies reported I was not on radar or dar? What gives? I did it for actual testing purposes since no one could agree if the radar alt was 65 or 75 feet?

Edit: On autopilot, for a few minutes.

[Lusche]

I did it for actual testing purposes since no one could agree if the radar alt was 65 or 75 feet?

You don't need to test or 'agree' on arena settings, you can just look them up online. Options/arena settings, (...). Altitudes, alarm trigger ranges (given in feet), object hardness, it's all there.

Radar alt = 65
Sector Coutner Alt = 250

[pembquist]

Noe doesn't work too well with bombers. The dar, dar bar, and alert flashing are too good an aircraft detection system. Any blink dots with a big bar are a dead giveaway. The geography is so tight and the aircraft response time so short that it is a recipe for frustration. It seems to me that the things that matter in this game are playing skill, numbers, tactics, and strategy in that order. It is a disappointment to the unskilled like me that the opportunity to be sneaky, not in order to avoid combat but in order to leverage my meager skills so cartoon death buys SOMETHING, is pretty limited.

[RotBaron]

Earl at first you said some side switchers were on your vox and they switched to Knights, and were part of the intercept.

Later you said that they "had to be" listening to your  vox: "maybe it was just bad timing, but to have three different groups in three different sectors, all getting jumped by a number of fighters, when there was no way anyone could know we were coming, because no dar bar was showing, so someone had to be listening to our VOX communication about where we were going."

Not trying to be an arsehat to you, but which was it? Were there switchers who intercepted your mission, did some switchers get kills/your group kill them?

I speculate the latter of what you said to be much less probable.

Here's why:  I used to do a lot of strat mssns (not as much as Snailman of course) at all types of alt. If you are NOE there are some maps that it is impossible to stay that way all the way to strats. There are occasions where you must traverse  between mtns and you can't afford to descend into the valley...and all kinds of other reasons of the like. One thing that anyone watching the map that will get their attn is a darbar that disappears/reappears, even numerous sectors away this is a good tell that something intentionally NOE is headed in.

I'm not saying there aren't DH's in the game, but the fact is there are many occasions where it's easy to think   when you are alone. However, when 10 guys do anything together...

A tactic used by many squads to deter any spying is no public announcement of target until mssn is up and then only on range/vox. Also know who is in your mssn, if it's a name you don't recognize then ask them who they are, ask who knows them...

Better luck in the future.
 


Edit: To give some benefit of the doubt to everybody: I've been playing for over a year, in that time I've seen a lot of things that I thought were questionable (spying wise.) A lot of times I thought spying was taking place. Sometimes it may have been, and I will contend that there is a very small group who does it. However, over the past year I have only once actually witnessed something that one might call "spying," and that was one player was vectoring his friend to another player's location to kill him over and over - really more of a: "we told you not to get us PO'd..." situation. With that said and by strong encouragement ( ) from other players to consider other factors, I will admit, of all the times I thought spying was going on, it probably was only a small fraction of the time.  

[5PointOh]

Oh some of you in this thread make me giggle.  

All and all Earl I had a blast, killed a La and Dora, and enjoyed the company of some real nice people.  Even got to hear Semp pat himself on his back for killing my single B24.  So it was fun and I do it again!

[guncrasher]

Last night, 10-1-13, the 94th Bomb Group flew a re-enactment mission to the Knights strats. NOE, with three different groups, approaching from 3 different directions, not one iota of a dar bar showing anywhere in the 3 different sections we were in. Half way to the target, we are bounced by 2 262's, number's of other fighters and entire force of 33 bombers were shot down and I think about 90% of the fighters, who were low and heavy!
Problem was, we had a couple of people on our VOX channel, who after the mission launched, joined the knights and I guess they were in on the slaughter. I won't mention any names, because I wasn't inside their head and could't see what they were thinking. Maybe it was just bad timing, but to have three different groups in three different sectors, all getting jumped by a number of fighters, when there was no way anyone could know we were coming, because no dar bar was showing, so someone had to be listening to our VOX communication about where we were going.
what makes those kind of people "tick" is beyond me! In my opinion, this is one more reason for channel 200 being shut down. Once we were bounced by the first 262, as if by magic, other fighters swarmed in for the kill of the B-24's which were at 65 feet AGL I don't have a problem with someone discovering a flight of bombers and announcing that on the VOX channel in use at the time, but the ability to tell everyone in Aces High what is happening, anywhere on the map in play is, I don't even know how to express the wrong in that. I personally have never tuned channel 200 since I have been in this game, because the unknown as to what is ahead is one of the excitements of the game.
We did return at high altitude and damaged the strats considerably, and was a fun mission and even with the large dar bars showing our position, hardly any fighters came up to contest the space in the skies with us! But, knowing all those buffs and fighters were NOE, a lot of people were rubbing their hands and saying, "oh boy, fish in a barrel"!

dude I call the full noe fromm all three sides a bunch of bs.  we saw you on dar from the time you entered giving us direction and heading.  at least 4 sets of buffs were on dar.  the fact that there was no darbar gave it away as an noe. ask any of my squadies plus the other pilots that were there how you were showing on dar.

we saw all 3 sides as soon as you entered dar ring.  that's how you got killed.  learn to stay below dar.



semp

[MrGeezer]

Well, Like I told EZRhino over a year ago--there are people (one squad in perticular) who thrive on either second and third accounts, or--far more often--who play on their squaddies account when they are not on--by design--and find NOE missions, high alt missions, gv missions--etc. and go in to rack up their score with easy kills.  They communicate of Ventrillo and Skype so their communications cannot be traced in the game.  They have been doing this for YEARS now.  All they have to do is have a second computer on a 2 weeker account, paid additional account or a squaddie's account monitoring the other country's green text and missions and they can rack up all the kills they want.

Old & busted:  Jumping sides or sending n00bs over to the other sides to spy

NEW Method:  Second accounts or playing on another squaddie's account when they are away

Against HiTech's rules?  At least overtly, yes.  Happen every day anyway?  Absolutely.

[Gemini]

Last night, 10-1-13, the 94th Bomb Group flew a re-enactment mission to the Knights strats. NOE, with three different groups, approaching from 3 different directions, not one iota of a dar bar showing anywhere in the 3 different sections we were in. Half way to the target, we are bounced by 2 262's, number's of other fighters and entire force of 33 bombers were shot down and I think about 90% of the fighters, who were low and heavy!
Problem was, we had a couple of people on our VOX channel, who after the mission launched, joined the knights and I guess they were in on the slaughter. I won't mention any names, because I wasn't inside their head and could't see what they were thinking. Maybe it was just bad timing, but to have three different groups in three different sectors, all getting jumped by a number of fighters, when there was no way anyone could know we were coming, because no dar bar was showing, so someone had to be listening to our VOX communication about where we were going.
what makes those kind of people "tick" is beyond me! In my opinion, this is one more reason for channel 200 being shut down. Once we were bounced by the first 262, as if by magic, other fighters swarmed in for the kill of the B-24's which were at 65 feet AGL I don't have a problem with someone discovering a flight of bombers and announcing that on the VOX channel in use at the time, but the ability to tell everyone in Aces High what is happening, anywhere on the map in play is, I don't even know how to express the wrong in that. I personally have never tuned channel 200 since I have been in this game, because the unknown as to what is ahead is one of the excitements of the game.
We did return at high altitude and damaged the strats considerably, and was a fun mission and even with the large dar bars showing our position, hardly any fighters came up to contest the space in the skies with us! But, knowing all those buffs and fighters were NOE, a lot of people were rubbing their hands and saying, "oh boy, fish in a barrel"!

thanks for posting   this has made my morning