Another Possible Bomb and Bailer Solution

[Kingpin]

Another Possible Bomb and Bailer Solution

I agree with the others who say that bomb-and-bailing detracts from game-play.  I too have seen a dramatic increase in the number of players bomb-and-bailing in the MA or simply bailing on first sight of the enemy.  One squad in particular seems to encourage this and has made it SOP.

So, I think it’s long past time it was addressed, and want to put forward a specific suggestion that isn’t a “punishment” approach, but rather a way to simply eliminate the ability to bomb-and-bail.

Make bailing (enter 3x) only work when an aircraft has critical damage.

For example, enable the ability to bail only when: on fire; dead-stick; part of a wing missing; both horiz-stabs, both elevators or both ailerons missing; vert stab(s) missing; or pilot-wounded.  (Did I miss something?)

Side effects:

1) Bomb-and-bailers could (and likely will) just auger their planes instead, but I’m OK with them taking a death over a capture or safe bail.  Diving to tear off parts might be another method, but again that's better than just enter 3 times for a free pass.

2) You can’t bail to change planes or to instantly be somewhere else.  I’ve always felt that bailing out of a good plane is gamey and lame, even in this case.  Just land or ditch if you want to change aircraft or be somewhere else.  If you are that eager, then auger and take the death for your impatience.

3) No more bailing over a field (or from the storch hanger) to guard a map-room with a pilot.  IMO, this is gamey too.  Do you really think a single pilot with a pistol could stop paratroopers from taking a field?  If this element of game play is so important, then allow bailing on the runway/ground (add that to the conditions list).  Personally, I could do without it.

Bottom line: Bailing should only be an option for someone needing to bail due to damage.

With all the bomb and bailing I’ve seen lately, I can honestly say my interest in the game is waning.  There is plenty of gamey-ness about bombers in AH already, without seeing bomb-and-bailers all the time.  Good riddance to this flaw in AH game play, I say.

Respectfully submitted,

<S>
Ryno

[Debrody]

While i think, bomb n bail is something lame, please consider that it might be necessery to shut down the game quickly. Heck, even had to bail from an uninjured 262 for some reasons 

A minute (or so) of delay sounds like a better option, at least for me.

[Lusche]

1) Bomb-and-bailers could (and likely will) just auger their planes instead, but I’m OK with them taking a death over a capture or safe bail.

Would not make any difference, practically. "Death" vs "captured" means 0.25x instead of 0.4x for score points, and in terms of damage/death or earned perks it's exactly the same. Someone even remotely interested in his score would not bomb'n'bail in the first place.

[Kingpin]

Would not make any difference, practically. "Death" vs "captured" means 0.25x instead of 0.4x for score points, and in terms of damage/death or earned perks it's exactly the same. Someone even remotely interested in his score would not bomb'n'bail in the first place.

An increase to .4 of your points from .25 (for a death) is still a benefit of bailing.

Somehow there are bomb and bailers who maintain good scores.  There is a particular player on the Bish side who I run into  quite frequently during my time, even though he does his best to avoid contact.  Over 2/3's of his sorties are bails.  He bombs towns and then bails so he can sneak bases on his own.  Then he grabs a deacking plane and bails if you find him inbound (before he reaches target) and then reups hoping you will go away.  Then he bails after deacking.  Then he grabs a goon and bails if you find him.  

I'd much rather see a few more deaths, or any kind of additional discouragement, going to this type of game play instead of the way it is now with safe bails allowed to get out of fighting.  Sneaking a base is one thing (and I'm fine with it if nobody defends).  Exploiting flaws in the game design to avoid resistance in order to sneak a base is another thing entirely.

Oh, and Debrody, can't you just Alt F4 if you need to close the game quickly?  Or force quit it?  Why bail first?

<S>
Ryno

[Kingpin]

I failed to mention the bomber pilot in my example who bails all the time after dropping usually has a bomber score in the teens.  Either we don't have very many decent bomber pilots, or bailing doesn't hurt score as much as you seem to think it does.

<S>
Ryno

[guncrasher]

Another Possible Bomb and Bailer Solution

I too have seen a dramatic increase in the number of players bomb-and-bailing in the MA or simply bailing on first sight of the enemy.  

I dont know what game you play but I havent seen this dramatic increase.  actually the last time I recall seeing somebody bombing and bailing out was a vtard and that was many months ago.

I just played for several hours today and the only bomb and bailing I saw was me and that was because i deciced to ditch one of the bombers and me and my gunner were gonna go fighter hunting after we sank the cv.  we eneded up dying.

semp

[guncrasher]

1) Bomb-and-bailers could (and likely will) just auger their planes instead, but I’m OK with them taking a death over a capture or safe bail.  Diving to tear off parts might be another method, but again that's better than just enter 3 times for a free pass.

capture/bail/death all count the same towards score.  I even think a ditch also counts as a death.


semp

[ink]

who cares what someone else does ingame.......its lame for sure.....just laugh and move on.

[Karnak]

Bomb 'n bailers are annoying, but somewhat understandable and predictable.  The ones that really irritate me are the "Bail before the fighter that laboriously climbed to my altitude is close enough to get even a proxy kill and I haven't even dropped my bombs yet." guys.

[Kingpin]

Bomb 'n bailers are annoying, but somewhat understandable and predictable.  The ones that really irritate me are the "Bail before the fighter that laboriously climbed to my altitude is close enough to get even a proxy kill and I haven't even dropped my bombs yet." guys.

Yep, this solution is intended to address that as well.  I have seen that done quite a bit as well.  And not just from high alt bombers.  From bombers at all alts, goons and even fighters.  People would rather bail than have to fight, I guess.

Anyway, I think it is well past time that this issue is addresses.

<S>
Ryno

[cobia38]

 I always get a kick out of the fighter jocks who attack a bomber and bite of more then they can chew,then they either run or call for backup.
  something should be done about these types too 

[Wiley]

1) Bomb-and-bailers could (and likely will) just auger their planes instead, but I’m OK with them taking a death over a capture or safe bail.  Diving to tear off parts might be another method, but again that's better than just enter 3 times for a free pass.

In what meaningful way?  In situations where you're not going to get the kill/proxy because he bails, it's pretty unlikely it will be any different if he just heads for the dirt.  How does your suggestion modify the behavior in any way other than the details?

Wiley.

[Aspen]

Seems like a waste of coding time when the following will take care of it:





"meh"

[Arlo]

Another Possible Bomb and Bailer Solution

I agree with the others who say that bomb-and-bailing detracts from game-play.  I too have seen a dramatic increase in the number of players bomb-and-bailing in the MA or simply bailing on first sight of the enemy.  One squad in particular seems to encourage this and has made it SOP.

So, I think it’s long past time it was addressed, and want to put forward a specific suggestion that isn’t a “punishment” approach, but rather a way to simply eliminate the ability to bomb-and-bail.

Make bailing (enter 3x) only work when an aircraft has critical damage.

For example, enable the ability to bail only when: on fire; dead-stick; part of a wing missing; both horiz-stabs, both elevators or both ailerons missing; vert stab(s) missing; or pilot-wounded.  (Did I miss something?)

Side effects:

1) Bomb-and-bailers could (and likely will) just auger their planes instead, but I’m OK with them taking a death over a capture or safe bail.  Diving to tear off parts might be another method, but again that's better than just enter 3 times for a free pass.

2) You can’t bail to change planes or to instantly be somewhere else.  I’ve always felt that bailing out of a good plane is gamey and lame, even in this case.  Just land or ditch if you want to change aircraft or be somewhere else.  If you are that eager, then auger and take the death for your impatience.

3) No more bailing over a field (or from the storch hanger) to guard a map-room with a pilot.  IMO, this is gamey too.  Do you really think a single pilot with a pistol could stop paratroopers from taking a field?  If this element of game play is so important, then allow bailing on the runway/ground (add that to the conditions list).  Personally, I could do without it.

Bottom line: Bailing should only be an option for someone needing to bail due to damage.

With all the bomb and bailing I’ve seen lately, I can honestly say my interest in the game is waning.  There is plenty of gamey-ness about bombers in AH already, without seeing bomb-and-bailers all the time.  Good riddance to this flaw in AH game play, I say.

Respectfully submitted,

<S>
Ryno

Works for me. 

[Kingpin]

In what meaningful way?  In situations where you're not going to get the kill/proxy because he bails, it's pretty unlikely it will be any different if he just heads for the dirt.  How does your suggestion modify the behavior in any way other than the details?

Wiley.

In cases like you are talking about, with nobody in proximity, it's still a death rather than a bail.  As Lusche pointed out, there is a difference (albeit small) in the points for that.  More importantly, I think it psychologically makes a difference being a death rather than a bail.

The case that affects other players more, the case of someone at alt simply trying to avoid contact as soon as they see you -- they would not be able to bail in a fraction of a second.  You may be able to close the distance before they can auger or destroy their plane (if they still try to).  I think that too will make a positive difference and significantly reduce the "I bailed, ha ha, you didn't get me" style of play.

I try to think out my suggestions in order to focus on not "taking away" anything positive from the game.  Other suggestions addressing bomb-and-bail have been for a "time out" penalty approach.  Instead I believe this idea just closes the loophole that is being exploited without taking away anything from game play.

<S>
Ryno