Author Topic: How to avoid the HO shot.  (Read 6741 times)

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: How to avoid the HO shot.
« Reply #75 on: October 22, 2013, 02:07:43 PM »
Sorry, got smacked with a surprise chemistry quiz. I can probably get on tonight, but not making any promises.

All depends on how fast I can crank out my math homework, and study for my midterm in that class.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Arlo

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Re: How to avoid the HO shot.
« Reply #76 on: October 22, 2013, 02:12:59 PM »
Sorry, got smacked with a surprise chemistry quiz. I can probably get on tonight, but not making any promises.

All depends on how fast I can crank out my math homework, and study for my midterm in that class.

I'm confident we all understand.

Offline Kingpin

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Re: How to avoid the HO shot.
« Reply #77 on: October 22, 2013, 02:39:04 PM »
Sorry, got smacked with a surprise chemistry quiz. I can probably get on tonight, but not making any promises.
All depends on how fast I can crank out my math homework, and study for my midterm in that class.

Take your time on your homework, study for your exam and forget the film, Jager.

It's far more important to spend time trying to impress your teachers, whereas spending any time to impress anyone on this forum is utterly unimportant. 

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Ryno
Quote from: bozon
For those of us playing this game for well over a decade, Aces High is more of a social club. The game just provides the framework. I keep logging in for the people and Pipz was the kind that you keep coming to meet again.

Offline The Fugitive

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Re: How to avoid the HO shot.
« Reply #78 on: October 22, 2013, 04:24:53 PM »
Before deciding to take a hiatus due to extreme frustration, I was running into the problem of my attempts to evade a bounce turning into a HO shot. When an enemy dove down on my six, I turned towards him as I'd been instructed, but he inevitably got a HO shot on me. How do you achieve separation in this instance? Is it better to simply do a quick evasion without turning directly into the con's attack, or is there something else that I was missing.

Contemplating a return, provided I can find a way to mellow out a bit....

-Muzzy.

Muzzy, I'm no pro but this is one of the first things I was taught in this situation. Nose down a bit to get your speed up (250-300 range) giving your tail to the bad guy. As he closes 3k or so out start a turn to one side or the other. If you spot him late you can nose down in this turn to build speed. As he closes tighten the turn more and more. The idea is to make it look like he is still on your tail but you are forcing him to pull more and more G's to get his lead for a shot. The end game of this move is your wing tip should be pointing at him as he goes to guns (giving him a real small profile). As he passes you can pull back and roll back into his line of flight and if your timing is right, get a shot off as he goes by.

You can do this endlessly, but he can't, eventually he will run out of that extra E he had when he started the attack and being co-E with him your in the fight now. Also, watch him as he over shoots. Some guys try to hit the brakes hard and force you to over shoot so they can drop back in on your tail. If he looks like he is slowing, hit your brakes and keep him in front of your wing line ( 3-9 line).

Don't let the game bother you, It IS a game and you can get all the planes you want.

Offline Kingpin

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Re: How to avoid the HO shot.
« Reply #79 on: October 22, 2013, 04:30:38 PM »
Before deciding to take a hiatus due to extreme frustration, I was running into the problem of my attempts to evade a bounce turning into a HO shot. When an enemy dove down on my six, I turned towards him as I'd been instructed, but he inevitably got a HO shot on me. How do you achieve separation in this instance? Is it better to simply do a quick evasion without turning directly into the con's attack, or is there something else that I was missing.

Contemplating a return, provided I can find a way to mellow out a bit....

-Muzzy.

Since I got firmly involved in this thread, I'll take a shot at this.

With regard to your frustrations, Muzzy, I know the feeling.  I’m also taking a break myself for similar reasons and haven’t flown in the MA in weeks.  I still try to get in for squad training every once in a while, and I find that participating in events like FSOs, doing practice with my squad and working with others in the TA allows me to take the frustrations of the MA with a grain of salt.  I try to think of the MA as a meaningless pick-up game, while FSO is “Friday Night Lights”, if you get my metaphor.  Maybe that helps.

As far as your “BnZ evasion turning into a HO” problem, it sounds like you may be turning too soon or turning too sharply into the con, which brings you nose on for the HO.  There is both a timing and an angle element you may want to work on.

“Turning into the con” doesn’t necessarily mean turning nose on.  It could be just rolling to place your lift vector (up view) on the enemy and slowly turning back into him.  When you are sure he is attacking (diving), you start to turn and tighten your turn as he gets closer, then evade sharply as he reaches guns range, preferably with both a horizontal and vertical component.  If done correctly, he will have difficulty pulling lead for a shot.  Instead, he will usually shoot behind you.  Watch some of Vudu’s or Latrobe’s combat films and you will see this is a maneuver they use frequently and successfully.

When I do this, I like to hide some E (initially using a low-G or slightly nose down turn), so I can pull up into the con and then over the top as they pass under and behind me.  Often you can get a shot on the con as they climb back up or start to extend.  If they go sharply vertical you may wind up with a snap shot at very close range, which can be a kill shot.  Even just a few pings on a BnZer might motivate them to just extend and go seek easier prey.

The key to all this is timing, so it is something that needs to be practiced.  

As always, the best advice is to get with a trainer and ask to work on BnZ evasion/reversals.

My two cents.

<S>
Ryno
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 04:37:39 PM by Kingpin »
Quote from: bozon
For those of us playing this game for well over a decade, Aces High is more of a social club. The game just provides the framework. I keep logging in for the people and Pipz was the kind that you keep coming to meet again.

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: How to avoid the HO shot.
« Reply #80 on: October 22, 2013, 07:16:13 PM »
Muzzy, I'm no pro but this is one of the first things I was taught in this situation. Nose down a bit to get your speed up (250-300 range) giving your tail to the bad guy. As he closes 3k or so out start a turn to one side or the other. If you spot him late you can nose down in this turn to build speed. As he closes tighten the turn more and more. The idea is to make it look like he is still on your tail but you are forcing him to pull more and more G's to get his lead for a shot. The end game of this move is your wing tip should be pointing at him as he goes to guns (giving him a real small profile). As he passes you can pull back and roll back into his line of flight and if your timing is right, get a shot off as he goes by.

^ This.  Otherwise known as a defensive barrel-roll.
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline Muzzy

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Re: How to avoid the HO shot.
« Reply #81 on: October 24, 2013, 12:41:49 PM »
Thanks for the advice, guys. Now all I need is a new call sign.   :salute


CO 111 Sqdn Black Arrows

Wng Cdr, No. 2 Tactical Bomber Group, RAF, "Today's Target" Scenario. "You maydie, but you will not be bored!"

Offline Arlo

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Re: How to avoid the HO shot.
« Reply #82 on: October 24, 2013, 12:45:40 PM »
Thanks for the advice, guys. Now all I need is a new call sign.   :salute

Dodger

Offline Muzzy

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Re: How to avoid the HO shot.
« Reply #83 on: October 24, 2013, 12:49:09 PM »
Isn't there already a dodger? :)


CO 111 Sqdn Black Arrows

Wng Cdr, No. 2 Tactical Bomber Group, RAF, "Today's Target" Scenario. "You maydie, but you will not be bored!"

Offline Arlo

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Re: How to avoid the HO shot.
« Reply #84 on: October 24, 2013, 12:54:05 PM »
Isn't there already a dodger? :)


Jinks

Offline Arlo

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Re: How to avoid the HO shot.
« Reply #85 on: October 24, 2013, 12:55:31 PM »
Zag

BRYM

(Barrel Roll You Missed)

Offline Muzzy

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Re: How to avoid the HO shot.
« Reply #86 on: October 24, 2013, 03:00:17 PM »
Oh I like that last one. :)


CO 111 Sqdn Black Arrows

Wng Cdr, No. 2 Tactical Bomber Group, RAF, "Today's Target" Scenario. "You maydie, but you will not be bored!"

Offline wpeters

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Re: How to avoid the HO shot.
« Reply #87 on: October 24, 2013, 04:06:37 PM »
 Some guys try to hit the brakes hard and force you to over shoot so they can drop back in on your tail. If he looks like he is slowing, hit your brakes and keep him in front of your wing line ( 3-9 line).


What is the best way to hit the breaks
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: How to avoid the HO shot.
« Reply #88 on: October 24, 2013, 04:14:29 PM »
Some guys try to hit the brakes hard and force you to over shoot so they can drop back in on your tail. If he looks like he is slowing, hit your brakes and keep him in front of your wing line ( 3-9 line).


What is the best way to hit the breaks

Chop your throttle and stomp on your rudders. Adding some elevator and aileron to kinda fly sidewards helps too. The problem is you throw away a lot of "E" doing this. In a 1 vs 1 if you see him do it, then you can get away with it. If there are other cons in the area it may not be a good idea.

Planes with big rudders will do this. F4u's, 109s, P47's all a good at hitting the brakes. 

Offline Latrobe

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Re: How to avoid the HO shot.
« Reply #89 on: October 24, 2013, 04:42:46 PM »
Some guys try to hit the brakes hard and force you to over shoot so they can drop back in on your tail. If he looks like he is slowing, hit your brakes and keep him in front of your wing line ( 3-9 line).


What is the best way to hit the breaks

I wouldn't hit the breaks. I'd let them waste their E hitting the brakes and I'd go vertical converting my E into alt which I can then convert back into E when I drop back on their 6.  :devil