Author Topic: Bringing back my squadron to AH from IL-2 and DCS  (Read 1339 times)

Offline artik

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Bringing back my squadron to AH from IL-2 and DCS
« on: October 09, 2013, 04:50:33 AM »
Hello...

I don't know how many remember it, but there was a great squadron: 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel. It was active in AH for a long period - and I was a part of it, (does anybody remember ViFF, xcom, Doc?)

At some point its activity reduced and that it "reemerged" in the IL-2 and they are now planning to move to DCS World WW2 when it is ready(almost everybody bought that kistarter).

Currently the squadron flies IL2-1946 + HSFX packs in various historical campaigns. I'm flying with them (actually trying) but its not even near the experience I have in AH2.

IL-2 community trying to be "too" realistic, does quite a lot of dumb stuff, for example:

- Flying with no icons at all, such that I can't distinguish between Hurricane and Mc-200 from 200 yards from 6 o'clock when in real life I can distinguish between Spitfire models and from such distances (and even larger) - virtually I feel like I'm a half blind pilot  :bhead
- You need to know every V-speed for every aircraft like when to put flaps up so they would not be damaged, at what altitude turn on/change stage of supercharger - and we switch planes frequently, which makes it virtaully impossible  :bhead
- They do not allow interactive map so you have to "navigate"... with maps with very little details that don't give you any reference point and more than that with maps you are not really familiar (because you flew 2-3 times over it during training)  :bhead
- They do "real" trimming forgetting there is (a) no bot-meter so you can't feel the G (b) there is no feedback on the stick - so trimming can't be really done well  :bhead
- There is no stall warning at all (like the stick does not shake when you get close to stall in R/L planes) - because it is home stick and not real one, so getting into spin is quite unrealistically-easy  :bhead

Besides all of this "realism"

- The IL-2 + HSFX is horribly bugged
- Bombing is even more horrible task that is done with tables or 3rd part programs (like WW2 bombers had no automation at all) and you can't even configure your salvo  :bhead
- They use 1:2 maps and air-start (realism?)  :bhead


There is some cool stuff like white vapor after high flying planes, nice looking ground (from high altitude), the more advanced communication because you need to recognize your formation members - but in general IL-2 is horrible experience.

Sometimes I think the planes are actually over-modeled as for example, in IL2, P-51D can hold 3.9G-4.0G sustained turn ratio at 250mph at sea level...
(It seems to me too high values for WW2 planes) but I can't find confirmation from a literature - to prove it (HiTech - where can I find such info?)

Basically more time I compare IL-2 and AH-2 I find how genius HTC's decisions are - about what can be done in R/L and what can be done flying simple stick looking at 1366x1024 screen. (Thank you HTC, I gladly pay my monthly $15)



They are thinking to move to DCS WW2 (when it ready)... Which not only does not run on my laptop because of requirements of massive graphics cards - it would lack even basic plane-set when it would be completed.



These guys are very professional in group ACM and protecting each other. It is really fun to fly with them, but the game is HORRIBLE. I will fly with them at least one campaign so I can get full point of view on what are they doing... but as far as I can see I wouldn't be able to continue with them.

Big Question?

How do I convince them to come back to AH - they are about 12-16 players?

I tried to do some AH2 workshops - to show the stuff... but not too many were interested as they see AH as "old generation" stigma.

So any suggestions?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 05:53:19 AM by artik »
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline Arlo

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Re: Bringing back my squadron to AH from (IL-2 and DCS)
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2013, 05:01:55 AM »

Big Question?

How do I convince them to come back to AH - they are about 12-16 players?

I tried to do some AH2 workshops - to show the stuff... but not too many were interested as they see AH as "old generation" stigma.

So any suggestions?

Challenge their 'old generation' stigma with 'tried and true'/dedicated community/fun people/great historical events rationale. AHII is still developing, adding new planes and vehicles ..... it still has support ...... the company is owned by long-time players of AW/WB and AH who are not only experienced in game design and support but in touch with this community. They run HTC without influence from corporate managerial types who wouldn't know HOTAS or flight models from x-box or mouse-flying. This game stays true to both itself and it's community.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 05:03:41 AM by Arlo »

Offline ozrocker

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Re: Bringing back my squadron to AH from (IL-2 and DCS)
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2013, 05:13:18 AM »
<S> artik,
Welcome home. I remember you guys :salute

                                                                                                                                                :cheers: Oz
Flying and dying since Tour 29
The world is grown so bad. That wrens make prey where eagles dare not perch.- Shakespeare
 
30% Disabled Vet  US ARMY- 11C2H 2/32 AR. 3rd AD, 3/67AR. 2nd AD, 2/64 AR. 3rd ID, ABGD Command TRADOC, 1/16th INF. 1st ID

Offline scott66

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Re: Bringing back my squadron to AH from IL-2 and DCS
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2013, 06:11:09 AM »
Come home!! Bring all your friends..good times to be had :salute
"scott66"        
 XO ThunderHorse Squadron.    
                           
"This place is a psychologist's wet dream".... FishBait

Offline artik

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Re: Bringing back my squadron to AH from IL-2 and DCS
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2013, 06:24:02 AM »
Come home!! Bring all your friends..good times to be had :salute

I want to... but how do I get them back?  :headscratch: :headscratch: :headscratch:

(I'm obviously flying AH, but missing my old buddies)
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline scott66

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Re: Bringing back my squadron to AH from IL-2 and DCS
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2013, 06:44:08 AM »
I want to... but how do I get them back?  :headscratch: :headscratch: :headscratch:

(I'm obviously flying AH, but missing my old buddies)
hmmmm give me sometime to figure that out..glad you've come home..maybe some of the vets will chime in when they wake up LOL
"scott66"        
 XO ThunderHorse Squadron.    
                           
"This place is a psychologist's wet dream".... FishBait

Offline Fulcrum

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Re: Bringing back my squadron to AH from IL-2 and DCS
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2013, 07:14:52 AM »
Um.....Two week trial?  No cost?  Challenge them to fly as a unit for two weeks...just two weeks....if they are not hooked by then I'd give it up.






Just be sure to keep them away from ch200 during the trial period......the dark side, it is.....
Going by "Hoplite" now. :)

Offline bozon

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Re: Bringing back my squadron to AH from IL-2 and DCS
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2013, 07:17:52 AM »
"Gingi"! Tell them Captain Bozon orders then back in the game or that they will close a "matkalit".  :mad:

IL2, pffff.... :rolleyes:
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs

Offline scott66

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Re: Bringing back my squadron to AH from IL-2 and DCS
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2013, 07:23:42 AM »
Um.....Two week trial?  No cost?  Challenge them to fly as a unit for two weeks...just two weeks....if they are not hooked by then I'd give it up.






Just be sure to keep them away from ch200 during the trial period......the dark side, it is.....
this artik....
"scott66"        
 XO ThunderHorse Squadron.    
                           
"This place is a psychologist's wet dream".... FishBait

Offline artik

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Re: Bringing back my squadron to AH from IL-2 and DCS
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2013, 07:29:47 AM »
this artik....


Tried... Got 4 pilots for one sortie... not continued too much (also 2 of them were ex AH players)
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline artik

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Re: Bringing back my squadron to AH from IL-2 and DCS
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2013, 07:30:36 AM »
"Gingi"! Tell them Captain Bozon orders then back in the game or that they will close a "matkalit".  :mad:

IL2, pffff.... :rolleyes:
:rofl
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline Fulcrum

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Re: Bringing back my squadron to AH from IL-2 and DCS
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2013, 07:48:35 AM »
Quite honestly it's probably a lost cause....but you could try using some reverse psychology.  Example:

"Geez guys...I'm sorry you didn't like it.  I know that some IL2 1946 players can't make the leap to AH.  Flight and gunnary models are much harder and more realistic, and the on-line competition is a order of magnitude greater in the AH main arenas than can be found on the typical IL2 servers that pop up on Hyperlobby."

Statements like that are a slap in the face for any sim pilot with a shred of self respect.  Likely won't work but it's an option.  Be Warned - You might lose friends!
Going by "Hoplite" now. :)

Offline detch01

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Re: Bringing back my squadron to AH from IL-2 and DCS
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2013, 08:15:02 AM »
Artik,
   I remember 101 Squadron from back in the last decade. It would be great to have you bring them all back to AH. Have you tried using special events (scenarios, FSO's, SEC, Snapshots) as the hook to bring them back? From your description of them it sounds like they're interested in flying in a more historically accurate venue than the main arena here in AH. We have a larger number of these events that I think you'll find anywhere else in the WW2 air sim community, and they run often enough to keep them interested.

Cheers,
asw
asw
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semper in excretio, solum profundum variat

Offline Slash27

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Re: Bringing back my squadron to AH from IL-2 and DCS
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2013, 09:25:13 AM »
Hello...

I don't know how many remember it, but there was a great squadron: 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel. It was active in AH for a long period - and I was a part of it, (does anybody remember ViFF, xcom, Doc?)

Good group, remember them.  :salute

Offline Triton28

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Re: Bringing back my squadron to AH from IL-2 and DCS
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2013, 10:21:24 AM »
It's the gameplay options and community that have to draw and keep them.  If neither of those is any interest, it ain't gonna work.

Fighting spirit one must have. Even if a man lacks some of the other qualifications, he can often make up for it in fighting spirit. -Robin Olds
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