Three planes, a tank and an arena

[Karnak]

Id much rather have an IS-2 for such an arena. Much less of a threat than the Pershing.

It other words you want to preserve the GV imbalance.

That might be a good idea as the Allies would have a massive advantage in terms of CV aircraft and a still significant advantage in bombers.  It is also unlikely that the He177A-5 and H8K2 would be enough to entice enough players to Axis to make it numerically balanced.

[Tank-Ace]

The odds of any additions being enough to balance numbers is unlikely in the extreme.

Too many people just want to fly the stars and stripes out the window of their P-51 or B-17. Or fly their spit 16 and blast the Nazis and the japs to hell, just like in the battle of Britain  .

Of course we would have a few Schlowys, but they number only a fraction of their counterparts.


And as you said, the Allies would dominate CV aircraft to such a degree that any carrier use by the axis would be almost irrelevant.


That being said, I think the axis would (and should) have decided advantage in the ground, and in perk units.

Neither a Pershing it an IS-2 will ever, EVER be a match for the Tiger II, under any equal circumstances. Both are much closer in performance to the Panther. Infact, all three have highly similar armor strength to the front quarter, and their guns perform similarly out to around 800m, IIRC.

And the numerical disparity will shift perk cost in the Axis 's favor. The only issue is that they lack any midrange perk fighter. We would need a D-13, and perhaps even a Do 335 simply to provide something of an equivalent to the F4U-4 and Tempest.


In my opinion, here is the list of additions needed before such an arena could function properly:

He-177
H8K2
Meteor III
B7A
D4Y
Pershing/Is-2
Fw-190 ordnance update
Ju 52


Helpful stuff:
D-13
Ju-388

[alpini13]

   this is unrealistic. the fw-190 d13 was made in soo few numbers,it shouldnt be in game,same for the ju-388.   what is needed are aircraft that served and were significant to real life history...not modern interpretations of percieved history... for instance,the do-335 has bee n asked for several times.....thats nice. it was still really in prototype form at end of the war,never was in combat,no proof it even fired its guns in anything near combat,so few made that probably 99% or more of the axis and allied didnt even know it exsisted....no it should NOT be in game no matter how cool it looks. some planes that really made an impact would be.  PE-2,MIG-3,KI-44,KI-45,J2M5,JU-188,HE-177,JU-52,DO-217,HE-219,HS-129,JU-87D5,BAUFIGHTER,BLENHEIM,HANDLEY PAIGE HALIFAX,FAIREY SWORDFISH,GLOUSETER GLADIATOR,CR-42,G-55,SM-82,SM-79,CANT Z,RE-2000,G-50,IAR 81,D-520,B6N2,D4Y,Yokosuka P1Y,KI-21,I-153,RE-2005,SEAFIR III, THERE MORE, BUT YOU GET THE IDEA....ALOT OF AIRCRAFT AND SO FEW TO BE ADDED.....additionally there are ground vehicles needed as well.   what a canundrum

[Tank-Ace]

HTC has said their only rule is that they prefer units that saw combat.

Who cares how many were made, how many F4U -4s saw combat?

[Blinder]

HTC has said their only rule is that they prefer units that saw combat.

Who cares how many were made, how many F4U -4s saw combat?

Agreed. And to find something in the Allied ranks that could successfully tangle with the Tiger II might I also suggest the addition of these known "Cat Killers"

The Su-100



and the JSU-152

[save]

Only allied tanks that could be equal to the king tiger and the jagdtiger should be the centurion.

[Tank-Ace]

You mean the ones that never saw combat, and only had a 17lber?

[Blinder]

Only allied tanks that could be equal to the king tiger and the jagdtiger should be the centurion.

I didn't say they were equal to the King Tiger in terms of armour thickness and firepower. I stated these two vehicles because they have historically been known to kill Germany's big cats. Both the Su-100 and the JSU-152 have the hitting power required to kill the Panther, Tiger and Tiger II. This is historical fact. I remember when I was in tanker school at Fort Knox one of my instructors showed us images of a King Tiger that had it's turret knocked off from a direct side hit from a JSU-152.

Whether either of these self-propelled guns could, in turn, survive a hit from the KwK 43 88mm L71 is irrelevant. Their offensive hitting power gives them the ability to successfully tangle with one if properly employed by the crew.

[mechanic]

I would love this arena and would fly in it permanently

[Tank-Ace]

Blinder, the dynamics of the game play means that nothing the SU-100 (the best the Allies have) does will ever force a death on a Tiger II. Before it can do anything, the Tiger II first has to make a mistake.

While I want them added eventually, it's important to make clear that in EVERY single case from now until the end of the game, the Tiger II will have the ball.

[Blinder]

Blinder, the dynamics of the game play means that nothing the SU-100 (the best the Allies have) does will ever force a death on a Tiger II. Before it can do anything, the Tiger II first has to make a mistake.

While I want them added eventually, it's important to make clear that in EVERY single case from now until the end of the game, the Tiger II will have the ball.

Then the dynamics are historically inaccurate. The Tiger II was slow and prone to break down. A swarm of Su-100s, Su-85s, JSU-122s and even T-34/85s could overwhelm it easily if they got inside a certain range circle or out manueverd it. If the Tiger II was impervious then the Germans would have won WWII.

And like I said. The JSU-152 can kill it with an HE round. That is a fact.

[Karnak]

Wasn't there a historical engagement where a single veteran T-34/85 ambushed and destroyed three Tiger IIs with HVAP at short range and through the front armor?

[save]

HTC reincarnation of a "normal" tank battle with all its parameters is simplified to a minimum. rough terrain, snow, visibility, dug-in tanks, in-passable terrains for tanks / mobile AT guns, mines, surviving a killed tank we do not have in AH.

The problem with Russian tanks where while they could kill a heavy German tank at shorter ranges, many times they where exposed to longer ranges IRL, and with abysmal reloading time of their main gun, and inferior optics and training, they relied mostly on mass-tactic even in 1945.

IS2/IS3 had very good frontal armour though, increasing survivability if tank where destroyed.

Latest American tanks had the hit power to kill a late German tank / tank destroyer, but lacked the protection of the German heavy tanks / tank destroyers.

Most crews of the late German tanks survived a kill of their tank, whereas a hit from a 88mm was very lethal to the American counterpart.

[Tank-Ace]

Then the dynamics are historically inaccurate. The Tiger II was slow and prone to break down. A swarm of Su-100s, Su-85s, JSU-122s and even T-34/85s could overwhelm it easily if they got inside a certain range circle or out manueverd it. If the Tiger II was impervious then the Germans would have won WWII.

And like I said. The JSU-152 can kill it with an HE round. That is a fact.

Aces High isn't WWII. We're not required to be as mobile as in real life, giving the Tiger II an advantage. Also, the Soviets actually have decent optics, reliably performing ammunition, etc.

It's a game.

Also, it's entirely questionable how effective a 152mm HE round would be. Even 203mm HE rounds need very close hits on Panzers.

Wasn't there a historical engagement where a single veteran T-34/85 ambushed and destroyed three Tiger IIs with HVAP at short range and through the front armor?

Way I heard it was the numbers were reversed, and it was side hits. If they penetrated the front, it was only due to poor quality armor on the Tiger II (not an issue here).

[Blinder]

Also, it's entirely questionable how effective a 152mm HE round would be. Even 203mm HE rounds need very close hits on Panzers.

If Hi-Tech modeled the 152.4 mm ML-20S gun-howitzer correctly ... there would be no question. The in-game Tiger II would have a genuine threat from the ground.

So I say if anything is going to be added to this "game" then the JSU-152 and/or the SU-100 should be top priority if there is going to be Allied vs Axis sides. If not then we'll all jump into Tigers and Panthers and keep having Big-Cat Fest 2013.