Author Topic: NO problem with the 51H being perked when it comes OUT i ll just... (Read 1228 times)

Hobodog · « **on:** January 27, 2001, 01:57:00 PM »

Ill just catch that blitz in my beutiful P-47M PRATT&WHITTNEY R-2800-59 Engine 2300hp and turbocharged to hell. No PROBLEM goin 476mph An still waying about 10 tons/ actually more like 7 1/2 with a normal load insted of a full load.

Torgo · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2001, 02:23:00 PM »

Can someone point to a specific PYRO or HT message (or relate a comment on the radio in the MA) where the P-51H is mentioned as a possible perk plane?

In all of the comments from HTC the only AC I believe I saw mentioned as examples of perks that we don't already know about are the Me-262, Ta-152, etc.

Personally, I hope we never see it...The P-51H never saw WWII combat and the addition of it will cross a line that I believe takes AH away from being a WWII simulation. (and, actually, I believe, actually never saw Korean combat...it was decided the more heavily built older models were better for ground attack.)

Hobodog · « **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2001, 03:07:00 PM »

First ive heard athousand people mention MY ASSUMPTION HOPING THEYLL COME OUT. And since it did see service and there were 555 of them built plus they were the only thing beside the 47m that could keep up with any kind of Jet(GERMAN JET THAT IS(besides the Fiesler Fi 104R, The beutiful Heinkel HE 178, and the Infamous FSW concept Junkers Ju 287(all rarlely used actually never in the case of the last two.) I believe to help even it out there should be a fast allied perk.

CavemanJ · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2001, 05:06:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Torgo:

Personally, I hope we never see it...The P-51H never saw WWII combat and the addition of it will cross a line that I believe takes AH away from being a WWII simulation. (and, actually, I believe, actually never saw Korean combat...it was decided the more heavily built older models were better for ground attack.)

IIRC Pyro or HT posted somewhere on the board that number produced and whether or not a kite saw combat has nothing to do with whether or not it makes it into AH.

LJK Raubvogel · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2001, 05:15:00 PM »

The day that a plane that never saw any combat makes it into AH is the day they will lose at least 1 subscriber.

------------------
LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 01-27-2001).]

Westy · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2001, 05:43:00 PM »

The attempt to exclude aircraft, that were actually produced and deployed to active service in WWII, but did not see combat is a transparant and lame attempt by the predominantly pro-LW types to obtain what little advantage they think they may get by an Arado, TA-152 or ME-262. To that I say....

Too bad.

Bring em on HTC. If it was made and not a prototype let us have it! At the very least the P-47M and N

For they DID see combat (a heckofalot more than the HE-162 and TA-152) and these WILL be the scrourge and nemesis of all that <heel click> is "Uber"

-Westy

Sancho · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2001, 06:23:00 PM »

Indeed the P-47M will be the scourge of all uber planes. I need something to spend my perk points on! Bring on the P-47M!! With Lanowski's 61st FS all black jug (for the uber Poles out there) or my favorite, this skin (since the only all jug squad in aces high is ammo's 63rd Fighter Squadron):

"George Bostwick spread his scoring from 7 June 1944 to 7 April 1945, ending the war with eight kills. Both his P-47M-1 and an earlier P-47-22 (42-26289/LM-Z) assigned to him whilst still with the 62nd FS were referred to as 'Ugly Duckling', although the name was not painted on either aircraft. Bostwick was the only Thunderbolt ace to shoot down an Me 262 - he got his jet on 25th March 1945 in M-1 4421160/UN-F. He also damaged a second Me 262 in UN-Z on 7 April."

...from the P-47 Wish List page

Above all, I thing the P-47M-1 would be one of the easiest variants to model for HTC. Externally, it would be identical to the D-30. Simply give it a new skin and revv up the engine!!

[This message has been edited by Sancho (edited 01-27-2001).]

Karnak · « **Reply #7 on:** January 27, 2001, 06:26:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by LJK Raubvogel:
The day that a plane that never saw any combat makes it into AH is the day they will lose at least 1 subscriber.

Why? Because it removes your pro-Luftwaffe crutch?

Its kind of funny that the LW fans are so keen to base acceptability on whether are not an aircraft had seen combat. The American demand for certain production numbers to be met is the same thing from the other side. They are both BS.

My take is that if any production aircraft, even just one, were built during the war, it is valid.
However, if HTC sees things differently I won't be quitting over it.

------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Sisu
-Karnak

Torgo · « **Reply #8 on:** January 27, 2001, 06:31:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Westy:
The attempt to exclude aircraft, that were actually produced and deployed to active service in WWII, but did not see combat is a transparant and lame attempt by the predominantly pro-LW types to obtain what little advantage they think they may get by an Arado, TA-152 or ME-262

I'm about the least pro-LW type there is :-) Other than attempting to disastrously fool with the 109G6 trying to get perk points last night I hardly fly LW.

My favorite ride is the 51D in general.

I realize there have been statements from HTC that numbers produced and seeing combat are not criteria.

I was simply expressing my personal opinion that I'd rather not see AC that saw no combat in WWII in the game.

Given that there are at least 120-130 important aircraft or variants that DID see combat in WWII left to model, why use precious resources of a small company producing "1946 fantasy war" aircraft?

And "seeing combat" is a pretty clear "bright line" that makes a good inclusion criteria.

The only debateable AC, I believe..is the Gloster Meteor. It did see combat..only against unmanned V-1s. It was deployed to Europe very late and flew combat sorties but was unsuccessful in finding German AC.

I say that's close enough and go ahead and put it in as a perk plane.

Actually, one reason I don't want to see stuff like the P-51H is that it goes far enough down a "slippery slope" that you WILL see assorted Luftwobbles then start lobbying for an assortment of German uberplanes that were a couple prototypes, a non-flying mockup, or just some drawings.

We'll also have people wanting the P-80 as a perk..which flew operational recon missions (unarmed) in the war. I say put it in as a perk plane with no guns :-)

Like the La-7, I frankly can't conceive of why people think of the P-47N as a perk plane. The 47s we have now are little-used and I doubt the increase in performance of the N will be enough to turn the P-47 into an arena-dominating uberplane.

Torgo · « **Reply #9 on:** January 27, 2001, 06:44:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sancho:
Indeed the P-47M will be the scourge of all uber planes. I need something to spend my perk points on! Bring on the P-47M!!

[/b]

Both the P-47M and N are slower by quite a bit than the P-51D at less than 15,000 ft (where 99% of all MA combat happens), aren't they?

I guess either might be the best choice to try to hunt down hi-alt Arado geeks, though. That's a pretty specialized and small-scale endeavor, though.

I don't see where they'd be the scourge of uberplanes. Or need to be perked. I could see the P-47M perked simply due to small quantities (If that were an HTC criteria, which, unfortunately, it isn't.)

[This message has been edited by Torgo (edited 01-27-2001).]

Sancho · « **Reply #10 on:** January 27, 2001, 06:52:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Torgo:
Both the P-47M and N are slower by quite a bit than the P-51D at less than 15,000 ft (where 99% of all MA combat happens), aren't they?

No Torgo, the P-47M was the fastest prop plane to see operational service with the allies. I'll post numbers in a bit. Flown by the 56th FG from January to May 1945. Not sure about the N... I'm pretty sure it was better than D-30, but it was mainly a long ranger variant of the jug.

[edit]You may be right about the below 15k thing Torgo. But at 32,000 feet it the "M" could reach 475 mph. If it couldn't catch a P-51 at lower alts, it could at least out dive them.

Now, the P-47M was a plane that could climb with 109s! Under WEP, it could climb to 20k in 4.75 minutes (4210 FPM in a jug!!). Still looking for low alt speed info for the "M".

Here's a good site with P-47M info:
P-47M: the fastest piston engine fighter of the war

[This message has been edited by Sancho (edited 01-27-2001).]

Jimdandy · « **Reply #11 on:** January 27, 2001, 06:52:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Westy:

...Bring em on HTC. If it was made and not a prototype let us have it! At the very least the P-47M and N For they DID see combat (a heckofalot more than the HE-162 and TA-152)...
-Westy

I agree. If it was operational at the time WWII ended it's fair game IMO. It will be very easy to regulate there use by adjusting the cost.

[This message has been edited by Jimdandy (edited 01-27-2001).]

LJK Raubvogel · « **Reply #12 on:** January 27, 2001, 07:25:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Westy:
The attempt to exclude aircraft, that were actually produced and deployed to active service in WWII, but did not see combat is a transparant and lame attempt by the predominantly pro-LW types to obtain what little advantage they think they may get by an Arado, TA-152 or ME-262. To that I say....

Too bad.

Bring em on HTC. If it was made and not a prototype let us have it! At the very least the P-47M and N For they DID see combat (a heckofalot more than the HE-162 and TA-152) and these WILL be the scrourge and nemesis of all that <heel click> is "Uber"

-Westy

You're absolutely wrong Westy. I pay $30 a month to play a reasonable facsimile of WW2 air combat. I want to get the best impression of what it was actually like to fly in those engagements. I don't want fantasy engagements. If I wanted that, I would fly Crimson Skies. But, Thank you for your attempt to tell me what I'm thinking. I love it when people read my thoughts. You have a bright future in the internet psychic market.

I have no problem with including the P-47M or N. If it flew operational combat sorties, bring it on. Save the "what ifs" for another game.

------------------
LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 01-27-2001).]

Animal · « **Reply #13 on:** January 27, 2001, 07:49:00 PM »

Raubvogel why dont you just quit now?
I mean, inst a 109 vs Niki a fantasy engagement?

Give me your password and I'll cancel your account for you if you want.

------------------
Fat DRUNK Bastards.

Nothing feels sweeter than facing a powerful enemy 1 on 1, the battle is tough, but you emerge victorious. As he types <S>!!! on channel one, you open fire on his chute.

[This message has been edited by Animal (edited 01-27-2001).]

Westy · « **Reply #14 on:** January 27, 2001, 08:03:00 PM »

Damn Animal. You beat me to it. Like the MA bears any resemblance to WWII.

Torgo, that's why I included the word "predominately" in my post. Most of those who do not want to see the late war British aircraft, or the US P51H, P-82, P-80 or P47M/N, are those that affiliate themselves, not with an aircraft type or two mind you, but a whole armed force - the LW.

These are aircraft that would have been at the front, and earlier than you can imagine, had the Allies been under the same life or death pressure and dire need to push literally anything with wings and an engine out the door into the air. And every inch of said airspace over Germany (and Italy) in 1944 and into 1945 was a combat zone due to the Allies literally dominating every square foot of it with the current models in theatre.

- Westy