Spitfire Mk V and Spitfire Mk IX bomb load

[Karnak]

Many thanks!!! 

My pleasure.  <S>

[bozon]

Yes, indeed.

REAF had Spit V, Spit IX and Macchi 205. All could carry bombs, but neither of them actually has them in AH. REAF spitfires used to bomb Tel-Aviv until the first S-199 entered the service. Also there were Hawker Sea Furies but they are missing in AH planeset.

On Israeli side I have 109G6 (S199), Mustang, Spit IXLF (actually = Spit XVI in AH) and Mosquito. Also the last one hadn't seen the action in Independence war. Most of the IAF Mosquitoes were acquired after the end of the war, but AH does not have Bristol Beaufighter, so I alter a plane set a little in terms of historical accuracy.

...

IAF had B-17G, REAF had Short Stirling.
...

I think the Egyptian Spits were late model 9's, so you can easily use our 8 model instead.

The Israeli spits were a hodge podge of models. A few were late model 9's that were smuggled out of Britain, but many of the others were bastardized versions that were bought around the world in pieces and assembled in Israel. A famous one was being hastily built from various pieces and was missing some metal plate. Mechanics raided junk yards around Tel Aviv and found a suitable piece that had a "Kneset 6" cigarette poster on it. As far as I remember the plane was named "Kneset 6" after it

Mosquito VIs arrived post war. The first mossie was a photo-recon model (PR.XVI?) that arrived in July 1948 and made sorties over the neighboring countries. The story how it got to Israel is an interesting one and I may post it here sometime.

The Israeli B17 made exactly one bombing run over Egypt and was never used again. A strategic bomber was completely unsuited to the Israeli airforce.

Israel had 4 Beaufighters that were stolen in a special operation. Beaufighters made some important ground support and suffered badly from ground fire. Since you mentioned Sea Furry, one Beaufighter was attacked by an Egyptian(?) Sea Furry and dragged it into a low alt fight during which the Furry augered. We need Beaufighters in the game, they were clearly uber. You can use Tempests as a Furry stand-in, even though the latter was better.

[artik]

The Israeli spits were a hodge podge of models. A few were late model 9's that were smuggled out of Britain, but many of the others were bastardized versions that were bought around the world in pieces and assembled in Israel. A famous one was being hastily built from various pieces and was missing some metal plate. Mechanics raided junk yards around Tel Aviv and found a suitable piece that had a "Kneset 6" cigarette poster on it. As far as I remember the plane was named "Kneset 6" after it

It is correct for the first spitfires, but later were purchased in good condition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Velvetta

The Israeli B17 made exactly one bombing run over Egypt and was never used again. A strategic bomber was completely unsuited to the Israeli airforce.

They had actually were used for tactical bombing. They bombed in Gaza, Rafah. They bombed the airfield in El-Arish.

Mosquito VIs arrived post war. The first mossie was a photo-recon model (PR.XVI?) that arrived in July 1948 and made sorties over the neighboring countries. The story how it got to Israel is an interesting one and I may post it here sometime.

...

Israel had 4 Beaufighters that were stolen in a special operation. Beaufighters made some important ground support and suffered badly from ground fire.
...

AH2 does not have Beaufighters. So substituting them with Mosquitos makes sense, especially that they were available shortly after the war. Same as substituting REAF Short Stirling with Lancaster that joined REAF in late 1949

[bozon]

They had actually were used for tactical bombing. They bombed in Gaza, Rafah. They bombed the airfield in El-Arish.

Thanks, I now realize that this is an entire chapter of IAF history that I was ignorant about. They did indeed do quite a few bombing sorties. I'm trying to dig up some more of their operations and how exactly they were used. Three B17s are not exactly a strategic bombing force and from the limited info I found they never encountered an enemy aircraft, which means they were not sent on long range raids. Also, at least initially only one of the three B17s had a bomb sight...

[save]

they used external view

[J.A.W.]

For an idea of post-ww2 Tempest performance,
-check out the graph shown in this article,
marked 'Standard Tempest 6'

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1948/1948%20-%201660.html

418 mph at sea level, not too shabby..

[J.A.W.]

For an RAF Tempest pilot's account of air action against the IAF Spitfires..

See here [paragraph 21],

http://www.hawkertempest.se/Tempests19471949.htm

[artik]

For an RAF Tempest pilot's account of air action against the IAF Spitfires..

See here [paragraph 21],

http://www.hawkertempest.se/Tempests19471949.htm

There were several incidents where RAF get in between.

In one case Mosquito was doing regular reconnanse over Israel territory until it was shut down by newly arrived P-51D. It was later discovered it was a  Mosquito from a RAF squadron based in Kabrit ari base near the Suez Canal.

In another case RAF spitfires penetrated to Israeli territory and got in the middle of REAF strafing an Israeli column when the 101's squadron spitfires got to intercept REAF forces. IIRC two RAF spitfires were shut down. Than more RAF forces returned including Tempests. Some of them where shut down too.

It was also noticed that RAF tempest almost shoot down RAF spitfires involved because both IAF and RAF flew them and RAF treated every Spitfire as non-friendly by mistake.

In any case when the details become clear it was a shock for IAF, because many ex-RAF pilots where flying for IAF 101 squadron (most of the IAF stuff was Mahal).

The funeral both RAF and IAF stuff was present.

[J.A.W.]

& Artik, here is another article on the subject, that may be of interest..

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/iafvraf.HTM