Just say NO to the HO

[Swager]

Amen Brother Hang!!!

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Swager
"Damn.....I can't believe I missed that shot!!!"
 
JG2 "Richthofen"

[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 03-22-2000).]

[jr]

OK "From now on" If I am in an HO situation and I can't safely duck I will wait until I see the other plane shoot. Probably will get killed more often but that's better than offending others. Besides getting whacked is no big deal. I am not going to start whining and calling the other fella names if he does
Too bad we can't hang out a sign saying "I don't do HO's" Wave wings or something.

Hard to avoid an HO with a F4U's for some reason!

[CANNON]

 I wish you would stop raggin on torq about flying the 1c. He kicked my butt when he was flying the n1k2. Im very happy with his choice of planes these days .

[fd ski]

banana - as for swearing - just send a request to the mailing list   we will hook you up

As for head on - anyone is welcome to head-on me. It gives be a great shot at them as soon as i come out of that lead turn  



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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

If nothing makes you happier then burning 109 - come and join us - we're looking for few good men

Northolt Wing Headquarters

[-ammo-]

Fellas--you ever heard of a barrel roll?

It is not that hard to avoid a HO.

It requires that you abandon an attempt to a gun solution on the HO that your adversary attempts. When you approach the con--its time to get speed and a little lateral seperation. At a point aproaching the merge, depending on the situation, You want to pull a lead turn into the con. this should leave you with favorable position on him.

If you insist on heading right at him--then you have a couple of good options. When you get to about D2.0 or D1.5 point your nose under his. It will be hard for him to get anything on you rather than a quick snapshot. He probably wont ping you. Second option--approaching merge---hopefully  you have great speed at this point!!--at D2.0 initiate a barrel roll. Now after you have merged and you are somewhere in the middle of your barrel roll, your opponent will have initiated an immelman (at least if he is worth is salt) to gain an alt advantage over you. You need to do the same or extend  and then do the same. When and how aggresive you do this has EVERYTHING to do with the type of AC you and your opponent is flying. Your vertical manuever doesn't have to be a classic immelman--it can be a combo flat and vertical manuever.



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AMMO
332nd Flying Mongrels
without us the Air Force is just another scheduled Airlines

[Wanker]

Thanks for the free pointers, Ammo, I'm going to give those a try next time. This is the kind of exchange I was hoping to get with my initial post.

Hangtime, thanks for adding nothing to the discussion, and lowering yourself to rude, personal attacks.



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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
"On the whole, it is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them"

[Hangtime]

banana.. no personal offence was intended. My point remains valid.. HO's are a part of air combat.

>>Seems almost every time I get into a good fight, one of us ruins it by using the HO.<<

This statement deserves hopping upon with steel-toed boots, and runs contrary to reality in the arena. Seems that what you wanted was sympathy for gettin whacked in HO's.

>>And with the ultra-lethal guns of AH, HO'ing ruins more good potential fights than any other form of baffoonery.<<

Another swift kick was forthcoming for this one. Can't tell yah how many times I've been faced with a decision.. drill in and HO and possibly get the guy after my Buff or C47 or to preturn for an angles fight. No question what the right decision is really; and I dislike being considered a 'baffoon' for using ANY option available that may turn the tables on the other guy. And that includes HO'ing the guy if necessary.

And then:

>>Thanks for the free pointers, Ammo, I'm going to give those a try next time. This is the kind of exchange I was hoping to get with my initial post.<<

Yep; Ammo's pointers are good ones; and thats what I usually do if I have that option. Nobody wants to run into a HO.. certainly not me with a one ping engine and 6 undermodled .50's vs 4 Cannon. No Sir.

BUT!!! your initial post was NOT asking for help in devising a workable defence aginst HO's; it was a whine about HO's in general. Quite a diffrent kettle of fish.

So; *<PUNT>* banana!

Say "ouch."

Hang


 

[Wanker]

Ouch! Hey, stop that!  

Actually, my original post was an attempt to get people to stop pointing their noses at each other and spraying, and instead to use ACM or the force, or the Schwartz...ANYTHING, to get on the other guy's six and kill his ass.

Alas, my experiences tonight were the same: More HO's than a Hennepin Ave massage parlor.

At least Ammo's tips helped me avoid them all...well, most of them anyway.

If my crusades to stop the HO'ing sound like whining, so be it. If I can save one person from a HO attack, then I'll feel vindicated.
 



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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
"On the whole, it is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them"

[Hangtime]

LOL.. Understood, banana. An honorable mission. Sorry I jumped the wrong way...

(hang buys the next round)

....and don't let my cat see them green bottles. She'll pinch em fer sure.  

Hang

[Jase]

HO's suck, it's as simple as that.  

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+Jase ^Nomads^ AH
Fly-Nomadic
"To Everything Turn..Turn..Turn"

[MANDOBLE]

1 - HO sucks -> Agree 100%
2 - HO is a RL tactic -> Agree 100%
3 - HO is easy to evade -> Agree 50%
4 - In Star Wars VI, Luck's Hawg1C shutdown Darth Vader's advanced TIE in a HO from d2.0 no matter how many lasser shots poor Darth used -> This is a fact, cant disagree.
5 - 99% of Spit pilots use HO over'n over -> Agree 99% (cant understand why).
6 - Slower'n lower cons will HO on you 50% of  the times.
7 - The best HO ally: lag.
8 - The worst HO foe: good ACM.
9 - The most efficient HOer: B26.
10 - The most common Hoers: Hawg1C and mad spits.

[-ammo-]

I use a spit5 or a 109g6 all the time--I dont HO unless it is too my advantage. A HO on a merge gets you the same odds as your opponent--50%. Thats not good enuff for me. IN RL the history and tales I have read say that the HO had an "unnerving" factor to it. I would say that if my life was on the line that this would be true. You would think the guiy was crazy!

mandoble--I invite you to some 1 on 1- you applying HO tactics. well see how many times you shoot me down--agreed?

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AMMO
332nd Flying Mongrels
without us the Air Force is just another scheduled Airlines

[MANDOBLE]

 

Originally posted by -ammo-:
mandoble--I invite you to some 1 on 1- you applying HO tactics. well see how many times you shoot me down--agreed?

I can't understand very well this invitation.  Why should I have to HO on you? To demostrate that evaing HO is possible? I agree with that 50% of the time. Evading HO implies also to evade the resulting deflexion shooting of the  Hawgs, and this is not so easy.

Any way, if you want some HO trainning you can find me in MA about 22:00 Gmt+1 time.

[-ammo-]

 

Originally posted by MANDOBLE:

3 - HO is easy to evade -> Agree 50%--I disagree--this is why I invited you to prove it to me. Ill evade your HO's (im not saying you use this manuever) much more than 50%

5 - 99% of Spit pilots use HO over'n over -> Agree 99% (cant understand why). How did you get that figure--are you just inaccurately generalizing?

6 - Slower'n lower cons will HO on you 50% of  the times. Why?

8 - The worst HO foe: good ACM. I do agree to this.

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AMMO
332nd Flying Mongrels
without us the Air Force is just another scheduled Airlines

[MANDOBLE]

3 - HO is easy to evade -> Agree 50%-- I disagree-- this is why I invited you to prove it to me. Ill evade your HO's (im not saying you use this manuever) much more than 50%

This is getting boring. I also can evade HOns more than 50%, but most of the people cant do, this implies this is not absolutely easy and safe task. It depends a lot on the speed and energy, put your spit or 109 at 160 mph and try to evade a fast Hawg1C HOing you ... Arena is not head to head, there are more than only two planes, once you are dogfighting a con, another can HO on you just  when you're getting slow.

5 - 99% of Spit pilots use HO over'n over -> Agree 99% (cant understand why). How did you get that figure--are you just inaccurately generalizing?
Obviously, yes. Perhaps 99% is exagerated, lets say 98%.

6 - Slower'n lower cons will HO on you 50% of the times. Why?

Put a spit low'n slow, aproach it fast from 90 or 270 degrees, most of the times you'll see the spit turning at you and starting to spray'n pray. I've seen that dozens of times.
Do a hammer over those slower spits and you'll see the con burning his little E HOing on you as you fall from above dozens of times also. Another typical scenario, spits taking off a sieged base while you cover. You'll see them tanking off and aproaching you with only HO in their heads.