Just say NO to the HO

[Wanker]

Is it just me, or is HO'ing become rampant in AH? Seems almost every time I get into a good fight, one of us ruins it by using the HO.

While it is a legitimate tactic, technically, I wish more people would start refraining from HO'ing, and instead use ACM to gain the opponent's six. I know this is just a game, but I wish we'd start to fly  more like the real pilots did. From what I've read, HO'ing was not a very popular way to fight. And with the ultra-lethal guns of AH, HO'ing ruins more good potential fights than any other form of baffoonery.

I going to stop using the HO as a means to a quick, cheap kill. Won't you join me?

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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
"On the whole, it is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them"

[This message has been edited by banana (edited 03-22-2000).]

[Mox]

banana you've opened a whole can sh*t with this one...

Just don't say anything about the "Strato buffs" or the Hog C's guns and you'll be safer...

<Mox helps banana build a fox hole for the incoming fire>
 

Mox
The Wrecking Crew

[Ripsnort]

I can mail you a zipped film, showing me avoiding a HO.  In the film,you'll see me past the con trying to HO me, and the  next  frame, you'll see my wing depart.  Almost similiar to the "Watermelon" sized bullets theory.  After reviewing  this, I've come to the conclusion that it may be fruitless to  try to avoid the HO with an F4U-1C, my question is : How  can that 1C shoot 30 degrees off the nose?

[RAM]

OH,man!!! Headon!!!    
I've been caled whiner, complainer, stupid and MUCH more things that I wont reproduce here, because I call ANY pilot thet tries to make a HO when he gots the advantage : DWEEB!!!!

2 nites ago I was in a p51,just took off, and I was jumped by a Spit 10K over me...did he bounce me? no. did he tried to get my 6? no
He dived on my and he was STRAIGHT FOR A HEADON!!!!!!!!!!!!
of course I tried to avoid the HO...he got two pings and my wing was gone. And when I called him Dweeb on #1 channel I was called all you can imagine (except handsome  )

I'm not giving bad numbers, because I started to count this since I p̣sted "HO Dweebiness" post. Last week, roughly 3/5 of my deaths happened when I tried to avoid headons...I was even headoned by a P51 when I was on F4U!!!! (note...I tried to avoid, he got my elevator and I had to run...Spraying from 1.5K Is VERY effective to assure pings in Headon...)

So,keep on calling me things, people. for those who defend such dweebiness, well I hope you like MADs (mutual assured destruction). For those who dont, be ready to die A LOT of times trying to avoid headon.
And to avoid some answers...NO IT DOESNT TAKE 2 to do a HO!!! if one tries to avoid it it is STILL A HEADON!

ah, BTW...exclude from avobe called dweebs the F4U and Niki drivers...those things are Headon Machines, and one of their best moves is to try a HO, 4 20mms are MORTAL. ANd exclude also those poor fellas being vultched...HO is their only resort...Exclude too all those people with a HUGE disadvantage in Energy...or those surrounded by 3 cons...

But to dive 10K on a con to Headon it is a MORTAL DWEEBINESS!!!!

 

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Ram, out

JG2 "Richthofen"

   

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-22-2000).]

[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-22-2000).]

[Rojo]

Ripsnort:  Net-lag may have something to do with the appearence of extreme off-angle shots striking home.  Also, liberal use of a rudder-stomp at the moment of merge can slew the guns through quite a few degrees.

As for the question of HO in general, I use it when I'm desperate (no way the enemy's E-state will allow me to saddle up), when I seriously outgun the opponent (and again am nuetral/disadvantaged position), and when protecting Buffs/Gooneybirds (cause to let em get by you would spell D-E-A-T-H for my charges   ).  For what it's worth, I read an account by Charles Lindberg about his time spent in the Pacific Theater with the 5th Air Force (known, by the way, as The Buccaneers   ).  His one and only kill -- as a civilian observer and consultant, he was supposed to avoid actual combat, except in self-defense -- was a head-on with a zero.  He notes in the account that the head-on was a favored tactic of the Japanese pilots at this time in the war, despite the firepower advantage held by most Allied fighters.  My own speculation regarding this is the lack of experience by Japanese pilots at this point in the war, combined with a foe who refused the engage in the classic turn fight, made this the only shot many Japanese pilots would get at downing Allied iron.

I never take a HO if I know I have the advantage.  Likewise I'll rarely turn it down if I don't, and firepower is on my side.

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Sabre, a.k.a. Rojo
(S-2, The Buccaneers)

[This message has been edited by Rojo (edited 03-22-2000).]

[Mox]

 

Originally posted by Ripsnort:
I can mail you a zipped film, showing me avoiding a HO.  In the film,you'll see me past the con trying to HO me, and the  next  frame, you'll see my wing depart.  Almost similiar to the "Watermelon" sized bullets theory.  After reviewing  this, I've come to the conclusion that it may be fruitless to  try to avoid the HO with an F4U-1C, my question is : How  can that 1C shoot 30 degrees off the nose?

Rip, Maybe Torgue could tell us!  

And I thought I was one of the only people that saw this happen on a regular basis with one plane and one plane only the F4UC.

I've had this happen with other planes but 75% of the time it's the F4UC.

Mox
The Wrecking Crew

[-towd_]

kill the ugly blue beast the evidence is there give use a korean war plane or take the hogs zeke like low speed handlin (not mentioned in any books i have read )away preferably lose the plane altogether , you got just a few guys who have discovered how to aubuse the hell out of it and unless we all go hog game is almost pointless when aginst a hog.
 was funny when torq and the mob crew came on yesterday and the 5 or 9 kill crap started numbers droped on rook side to 11 guys aginst 28 or so bisquets , who you gona kill when all log because of the gamers exploitin any hole in the game

[CRASH]

    Before we can have meaningfull discussion on head on's, we should probably define what kind of head on we're talking about.  If we're talking about getting into a turn fite and after a few turns the other guy gets his guns on u first and has a decent front quarter shot there's nothing thats not historical or realistic about that.  If we're talking about a hed on shot at the start of a high speed merge, well that was less common, but not unheard of.  
     Avoiding a high speed head on by an f4c or any other aircraft for that matter is easy as hell.  Just do a nose low barrel roll under his nose starting at no less than 1500 out. It definately screws up your lead turn and many other merge set ups but it's still possible to win the merge even after having to barrel roll. Fact is, you should never go head on with any aircraft that has cannons, it makes climbing to the fite a complete waste of time.
  I guarantee that no matter how much someone dislikes head on's they will most definately resort to it if you catch them at a disadvantage and you give them the opportunity to take the shot.
CRASH

[Baddawg]

I agree that the HO is to prevelant in AH.
And i like Ram have been  mugged by head ons from planes with a superior potential energy state.  Darn  frustrating ,like putting socks on a rooster .Funny i always get slammed by the Spittys in this way.

I fly the F4U-1C on occasion and enjoy it i dont look for HO attacks but i feel secure in having it as a defensive measure. I dont instigate head ons but i will do my upmost to end it if attacked in that way. But usually it leaves me with a sour taste in my mouth not to mention a couple of parts missing from my plane. I much prefer to secure an e-advantage in  the Hog/or 190 for that matter   and come over top and behind  my enemy blowing him to smitheriens.It is very gratifiying ,maybe even preversly so  

Right now i see no viable solution because you cannot control others actions in the game. Ive seen it before where setting up certain honor codes only causes animosity,and frustration.  

On my part i as a  Virtual Pilot i must devise tactics to avoid this situation,because when i find myself in  most HO situations its because i made a SA mistake. The high head on included. Most times i have no one to blame but myself.

[funked]

banana I agree, HO's suck.  It's the tactic that makes the most use of net lag and the unrealistic parts of the gunnery model (range finder mostly).

It's not true that it takes 2 to HO either.  75% of the cons I see will try to fire on the merge regardless of what I do.  However they can be avoided usually.  So I guess it takes 1.5 to HO.  

But given the maneuverability of our excellent Polish Spitfires, we can usually avoid these guys.  We'll work on it Thursday in squad training.

<S>



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Mike "FunkedUp" Waltz
Aces High Instructor Corps

Squadron Leader, 308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF

[Westy]

 I'm still working on it several months later and my contempt for headons has diminished to next to nothing now. At the same time I will now eagerly oblige someone who looks to be tryin a HO to me at the merge by zooming in on 'em and firing a burst before I try to duck myself out of thier way. Works most times. If I lose? No biggy, I jump in another plane...
 
 -Westy

[Swager]

When at a lower alt and a con pounces on me using a HO, I do not try to avoid it! I will take a HO anytime.  I do not try to initialize them  but, I wont turn away from them either.  Except against cannon birds.  

Ya know sometimes ya dont have a choice.

The reason I don't mind HOs is that I can finally get my sights on an enemy aircraft.  My ability to sight up an aircraft is not good!  So I lose 70% of the HOs anyways!

Have a nice day!    

Oh!  I also hug ack!!    

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Swager
"Damn.....I can't believe I missed that shot!!!"
 
JG2 "Richthofen"

[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 03-22-2000).]

[Wanker]

Hey Funked, when do we learn how to swear in Polish?  

Guys, I know that there are sometimes when the HO is your only course of action left, but I'm speaking more about a Co-alt merge at 20K, when you both have a choice as to what type of fight it's going to be. I'd like to see more people go for the advantage after the merge, rather than the HO before the merge, that's all.



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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
"On the whole, it is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them"

[Hangtime]

Stop the bellyachin. It's unseemly and undignified.

Someone points a big blue beast at me; I duck.. or not. If I get him; or he gets me, it's all part of flyin and dyin in here.

Just like Vulches... And blindside AFK bounces; sport ditch shootin, ropa-dopin and all the other various ways we kill each other in here... and folks, it's on the list as a historicly accurate way to die... or kill.

Yah pays yer money; yah takes yer chances. So stop the whining and sniveling. If yah got tagged and bagged; get another plane and next time duck or shoot first.

Hang (humph. Tired of hearin this line of drivel)

[Hangtime]

... oh... and who in hell ever said that Air Combat was freakin FAIR?? What; the other guy is supposed ta toss his percieved advantage (what ever that might be) out the cottin-pickin canopy and then give YOU an even break??

LOL!

Dead level 'guns cold' matches are great in Ladder duels. Not freakin likely in a combat enviornment.