Best Heavy Fighter

[Tank-Ace]

& T-A, why were you going on about high alt' performance?

I quote you from your post - #361, this thread ..

"...high altitude performance which is ENTIRELY irrelevant..."

I'm talking high alt because you were talking air to air (in general, not at any specific altitude band) at that particular point in the thread.

Of an ETO [ inc' Soviets] list of the top ten fighters..
& - based on A2A combat performance attributes - the P-38 might,- just squeak in there - but [very] close to the bottom of the list..

And aerial combat on the western front was predominately high altitude until the Allies firmly established themselves on the continent. Thus a comparison of high altitude performance is most representative of WWII aerial combat.

But if you want to do a comparison of very late war fighters, the 262 is the obvious winner in that competition. To such a degree that, assuming equal pilot skill, the tempest would be hard pressed to even get a shot where hes not just praying for a golden bb.

Naturally, for the drive into the Reich, & from forward bases - the RAF 2nd TAF had the high alt' A2A job covered by the Spitfire XIV, which would kick the P-38's arse upstairs - just as comprehensively as the Tempest does down on the deck..

So the P-38 beats the Spit XIV on the deck, and the Tempest up high.

Also, lets not forget that the P-38 not only made its first flight 5 years before the Tempest, but also made its first kill before the Tempest even made it wheels up.

[J.A.W.]

I reckon it would it be fair to rank the P-38 - in its ETO 9th TAF service -
in a tactical [low level] A2A air-superiority role  on 1-1-45 thusly..

As clearly below: Tempest, P-51, Spitfire XIV, FW 190D, La 7, Bf 109K & Yak 3..

& fighting real hard to beat out Spitfire XVI, Typhoon, P-47M, FW 190A & Yak 9

For a spot in the top ten..

[J.A.W.]

Sure it did, it just wasn't tasked for it.

The low altitude performance of the Spitfire LF.Mk IX and the P-38L are quite similar, and the Spitfire LF.Mk IX was one of the fighters tasked with V1 interception.

V1 Interceptors:
Meteor Mk I
Mosquito Mk VI
Mustang Mk III
Mustang Mk IV
P-51B
P-51D
Spitfire LF.Mk IX
Spitfire Mk XIV
Tempest Mk V

Typhoons got them too, inc' one which scored with its rockets!

Those Merlins were boosted to +25lbs for extra speed & Allison mills weren't cleared for that much..

[J.A.W.]

I'm talking high alt because you were talking air to air (in general, not at any specific altitude band) at that particular point in the thread.And aerial combat on the western front was predominately high altitude until the Allies firmly established themselves on the continent. Thus a comparison of high altitude performance is most representative of WWII aerial combat.

But if you want to do a comparison of very late war fighters, the 262 is the obvious winner in that competition. To such a degree that, assuming equal pilot skill, the tempest would be hard pressed to even get a shot where hes not just praying for a golden bb.

Turbo jets were not included in the thread topic, but Tempests did bag 'em , unlike the P-38..

  Spitfires were shooting down 'Huns' when the P-38 wasn't even operational,
yet on 1-1-45 in the ETO, they weren't past their best by date, unlike the `38,
& any Spit pilot worth his wages flying a XIV wouldn't hesitate to take on a `38 in an A2A contest - at any alt'..
 

[Masherbrum]

& any Spit pilot worth his wages flying a XIV wouldn't hesitate to take on a `38 in an A2A contest - at any alt'..

Please set the caca del toro shovel down, you look tired.

[J.A.W.]

List of allied fighters which shot down the Me 262..

USAAF - P-47, P-51.

RAF- Spitfire, Tempest, Typhoon.

VVS - La 7..

[J.A.W.]

Please set the caca del toro shovel down, you look tired.

As the Spit said to the P-38...L.O.L...

[Masherbrum]

No point, the ignorance is strong with you.  

[J.A.W.]

Read it & weep.. Caca-masher..

Spitfire XIV low level speed - at high boost  - for V1 catching.

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/rae1501-fig8.jpg

[Tank-Ace]

Turbo jets were not included in the thread topic, but Tempests did bag 'em , unlike the P-38..

Irrelevant; we're not discussing these fighters in the context of the OP. You're trying to discuss low-altitude air superiority work, not which is the best prop-driven heavy fighter. In such a contest, everything fielded in WWII invariably loses to the 262, assuming equal pilot skill

If you DO want to discuss things in the context of the OP, then the P-38 is inarguably the Tempest's superior. It simply a much better platform for air to ground work.

Spitfires were shooting down 'Huns' when the P-38 wasn't even operational,
yet on 1-1-45 in the ETO, they weren't past their best by date, unlike the `38,
& any Spit pilot worth his wages flying a XIV wouldn't hesitate to take on a `38 in an A2A contest - at any alt'..

And no spitfire could even hold a candle to the P-38's range, combat endurance, and ordnance capacity. The Spitfire was a superior short-range air to air fighter at low altitude, I will admit that point (with exception to the Mk XIV, which was not well suited to low altitude, and could reasonably be ranked on par with the P-38).


But the P-38 is a better escort, its a better ground attack aircraft, and better high altitude fighter (with the sole exception of the Spitfire Mk XIV). Hell, it was simply a better aircraft than most 'Limey' fighters.

Fact of the matter is that no fighter the UK built could do the jobs that the P-38 as effectively. The Mossie would be the only fighter capable of escorting bombers to Berlin, and it doesn't look like it could have effectively protected them from 110's, much less 109's and 190's.


Oh, and check out the P-38K. P-38 was in now way past its "best by" date.

[Masherbrum]

Irrelevant; we're not discussing these fighters in the context of the OP. You're trying to discuss low-altitude air superiority work, not which is the best prop-driven heavy fighter. In such a contest, everything fielded in WWII invariably loses to the 262, assuming equal pilot skill

If you DO want to discuss things in the context of the OP, then the P-38 is inarguably the Tempest's superior. It simply a much better platform for air to ground work.


And no spitfire could even hold a candle to the P-38's range, combat endurance, and ordnance capacity. The Spitfire was a superior short-range air to air fighter at low altitude, I will admit that point (with exception to the Mk XIV, which was not well suited to low altitude, and could reasonably be ranked on par with the P-38).

But the P-38 is a better escort, its a better ground attack aircraft, and better high altitude fighter (with the sole exception of the Spitfire Mk XIV). Hell, it was simply a better aircraft than most 'Limey' fighters.

Fact of the matter is that no fighter the UK built could do the jobs that the P-38 as effectively. The Mossie would be the only fighter capable of escorting bombers to Berlin, and it doesn't look like it could have effectively protected them from 110's, much less 109's and 190's.

Tank Ace.  We have had our go arounds in the past, but please heed this.   Stop feeding into his demented game of shifting gears.   You won't win, he will always come up with another topic to skirt answering direct questions.    He hasn't even answered if he has a current in game account, much less hours in R-2800 engined craft.    His silence on those, resounds as a "No."

You're wasting your time with him.

[J.A.W.]

Typical T-A..
 Just ignore the validated performance data, the actual mission parameters
& of course the results that were, in fact -achieved..

Your spurious objections are quite patently - worthless..

[J.A.W.]

 Just as typical - ol' Mashie goes solely ad-hominem,
since he has no valid data to contribute,
& anyway refuses to read it - even when - it is in his face..

[Tank-Ace]

Tank Ace.  We have had our go arounds in the past, but please heed this.   Stop feeding into his demented game of shifting gears.   You won't win, he will always come up with another topic to skirt answering direct questions.    He hasn't even answered if he has a current in game account, much less hours in R-2800 engined craft.    His silence on those, resounds as a "No."

You're wasting your time with him.

DavidWhales?


*edit*

No, after reviewing his post history, he's not asking for any inane crap. Worst 'theme' to his posting so far is just a deep hatred of radial engines for some reason.

[J.A.W.]

T-A, do you read the posted info?

The RAF could've had P-38's for free via lend lease..

But they had no requirement for a 3rd rate USAAF cast off..

[Hell,  they didn't even want the 2nd rate USAAF P-47 for ETO service]

Because..in REALITY..

Typhoon was  superior for A2G.

Tempest & Spitfire were superior for A2A.

Mustang was superior for long range escort.

Mosquito was superior for intruder/medium bomber..

Got it  - now?