Best Heavy Fighter

[Saxman]

BTW, in real life no f4u has ever been shot down by a p51, but p51s have been shot down by f4us.

Oooh, Soccer War. Nice reference!

[bozon]

Mosquito FB VI tactical trials..

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mosquito/Mosquito-VI-tactical.pdf

Note - that while considered capable of some Typhoon roles, it was not able to compete with the Typhoon in low level speed, A2A , or Vne..

Read again and read the addendum. The original test was done with a Merlin 23 version. The change to a Merlin 25 made a huge difference to sea level performance. Still could not flat out outrun a Typhoon, but could out-run all spits including the XII, and climb better and turn as well as Typhoons.

A day fighter is just about the only role the Mosquito was never meant to fill. de-Havilland did a preliminary study of a day-fighter version, but the RAF were not interested and rightly so. They had Spits and tempests that they were happy with (and cheaper) and de-Havilland could not keep up with the demand for more bomber/recon/night-fighter/fighter-bomber versions as it was. Eventually they built their fighter under the name Hornet as a completely new plane and it was a monster.

FB.VI did surprisingly well in air-to-air engagement with 190s and 109s, though these engagements were not common. I think that coastal command is the only service in which mossies were engaged in large-scale dogfights. Some were shot down, but they got about as many in return (I dont have exact numbers unfortunately). This is considered good given that the pilots were not focused on dogfighting in their training and the engagements typically started with the LW bouncing the mosquitoes as they were coming out of a strike, escorting flak-damaged planes and many burdened with rocket rails.

[Charge]

"FB.VI did surprisingly well in air-to-air engagement with 190s and 109s, though these engagements were not common. I think that coastal command is the only service in which mossies were engaged in large-scale dogfights. Some were shot down, but they got about as many in return (I dont have exact numbers unfortunately). This is considered good given that the pilots were not focused on dogfighting in their training and the engagements typically started with the LW bouncing the mosquitoes as they were coming out of a strike, escorting flak-damaged planes and many burdened with rocket rails."

Indeed, as it seems that the Mossie was hindered from turning tightly due to 9lbs inertia weight which restricted the maneuvering above 3G the Mossie had to be truly awsome.   

-C+

[J.A.W.]

The fact that with equivalent spec Merlins fitted,[like the Mustang]
the Mosquito was faster than the Spitfire, shows something.

The Vne of 450mph IAS <10kft
is only ~20mph less than the Spitfire & 109/190,
[but faster than P-38/USN types]
& that clean aero airframe allowed the
Mosquito to power on & evade most others if seen in time.

Ironically one of the few aircraft that could catch & kill the Mosquito
in a high speed tail chase was the Mustang, there are a number of recorded
incidents of this..
 [ 8th AF `51 jocks awarded kill credits, even after gun-cam clearly show that their 'Me 410' - wasn't ], so the 8th AF painted their Mossie tails red..

[J.A.W.]

F4U-4 & P-51H were contemporaries,

- but that little V-1650-9 Merlin could hack 90in boost on ADI,
so the pony could really take it to the fat lazy gas hog R-2800 powered Corsair..

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f4u/f4u-4-80765.pdf

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/F-51H_Mustang-SAC_-_22_March_1949.pdf

[J.A.W.]

By `45 air forces were jet focussed & didn't really want any more recip'
fighters ['cept maybe VLR stuff like the P-82 & DH Hornet] but the Navies
had to wait for competitive jets..

Here is the British RN replacement for their Corsairs..

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/Fury/Sea_Fury_Flight.pdf

Note: the liquid cooled Fury out-performed the radial variant too..

[MiloMorai]

By `45 air forces were jet focussed & didn't really want any more recip'
fighters ['cept maybe VLR stuff like the P-82 & DH Hornet] but the Navies
had to wait for competitive jets..

Here is the British RN replacement for their Corsairs..

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/Fury/Sea_Fury_Flight.pdf

Note: the liquid cooled Fury out-performed the radial variant too..

Better check your reference sources again.

Hawker Fury used an air cooled Bristol Centaurus 18 18-cylinder twin-row radial.

This Fury used a liquid cooled engine,


Be sure this is the a/c the RN replaced the Corsairs with.

[Ack-Ack]

F4U-4 & P-51H were contemporaries,

Those two types never engaged each other in combat.  During the Soccer War the Salvadoran air force operated P-51D/Ks and Mustang Mk IIs, along with FG1-Ds.  The Honduran air force operated F4U-4N/Ps and F4U-5s.

ack-ack

[Saxman]

Those two types never engaged each other in combat.  During the Soccer War the Salvadoran air force operated P-51D/Ks and Mustang Mk IIs, along with FG1-Ds.  The Honduran air force operated F4U-4N/Ps and F4U-5s.

ack-ack

Not only that, but the P-51H was basically a stripped-down hot rod to get that sort of performance, and never saw combat. Largely because it was a stripped-down hot rod that never would have held up in combat.

[J.A.W.]

Better check your reference sources again.

Hawker Fury used an air cooled Bristol Centaurus 18 18-cylinder twin-row radial.

This Fury used a liquid cooled engine,
(Image removed from quote.)

Be sure this is the a/c the RN replaced the Corsairs with.

M.M., that is funny, somehow I doubt if bi-plane Fury would last long being hauled around by a 3,000+ hp Napier Sabre mill..

& A.A., I`ll bet there were a few 'blue-on-blue' A2A tangles between USAF & USN fighter jocks, & even if they didn't unload on each other, the slick H-model pony had the performance to put the slap down on those fat hogs..

[Delirium]

J.A.W., I'm more convinced with every post you make that you lack basic knowledge of WWII aviation history.

Agreed Widewing, but I also feel he is purposefully mixing up figures and history to irritate the forum.

JAW has been banned from several boards because of his trolling.

I'm looking forward to the troll ban on this one, Milo. In the meantime, I think the below idea is the best to handle this one.

You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

[J.A.W.]

Not only that, but the P-51H was basically a stripped-down hot rod to get that sort of performance, and never saw combat. Largely because it was a stripped-down hot rod that never would have held up in combat.

Ah, no Sm,& did you read the SAC document provided in the link?

If you are suggesting that SAC boss C. Le May would tolerate a non-combat ready aircraft operating in his command, then you'd be very wrong..

[J.A.W.]

Agreed Widewing.

I'm looking forward to the troll ban on this one, Milo. In the meantime, I think the below idea is the best to handle this one.

Why bother with the big noting then D? - L.O.L.

Just pointless posting.. another form of trolling..

[Shifty]

I`ll bet there were a few 'blue-on-blue' A2A tangles between USAF & USN fighter jocks, & even if they didn't unload on each other, the slick H-model pony had the performance to put the slap down on those fat hogs..

So you're betting or in other words assuming.. Are you not the guy yesterday that said people on this board need to post hard evidence? You know, real stats like the last two confirmed air to air kills by Corsairs were P-51s in the Soccer War..

[Ack-Ack]

M.M., that is funny, somehow I doubt if bi-plane Fury would last long being hauled around by a 3,000+ hp Napier Sabre mill..

& A.A., I`ll bet there were a few 'blue-on-blue' A2A tangles between USAF & USN fighter jocks, & even if they didn't unload on each other, the slick H-model pony had the performance to put the slap down on those fat hogs..

If there were any friendly fire incidents between USAF pilots flying the P-51H and USN flying F4U-4/5s, there are no official records of it and those incidents would have been recorded.  Unless you're referring to mock dogfights, well, since there is no record of these mock engagements, one can hardly make the conclusion with a straight face that the P-51H came out on top.

Records do show however that the F4U-4 engaged and shot down P-51D/Ks and a few Mustang Mk IIs for good measure.  Of course, it really boiled down to respective pilot skill, the Honduran Air Force was better trained and coordinated then the Salvadoran Air Force, which had to scrounge the private sector to come up replacement Mustangs to replace those lost in combat.

ack-ack