DA vs MA

[Plawranc]

Ok, I have seen a lot of talk recently and in fact all throughout the game's history. That DA is the ultimate settlement of chest thumping disputes. Everyone continuously goes on about how they would smack you in DA and slap you with the glove every time they get killed in MA by someone other than the guy they were shooting at.

Just going to raise a little argument, and a little hell along with it.

I used to hold the view that the DA determined the superior pilot. This may be true, however the peerless duelists good they may be at slow speeds and tend to be superior handlers of their aircraft. But I find that I have more enjoyable and tactically challenging engagements in multi-con engagements in MA.

These days it appears to me that MA has so many varying combat situations that the adaptability and overall skill of the pilot is far more vital here than in the 1v1 grudge match of the DA.

Wondering what the competitive players and duelists think about this. 

[Latrobe]

I've never been one for the DA. I'll go there with friends for a few sorties of screwing around, but the MA is where the real pilots are made. DA is only ever 1v1, co-alt, co-E, same plane matchup. How many times do you get something like that in the MA? Maybe less than 1% of the time.

Dogfights are never set in stone. I have never, in my 7+ years of playing this game, been in 2 fights that were the same. That's what I love about the MA! The unknown, you never know what you're going to get yourself into. You can kind of guess what might be going on based on Dar Bars (when they're working correctly), but what planes are the dots on radar? What altitude are they? How fast are they? What skill level is their piloting skills? Will I be engaged with one of them? Two of them? Maybe I'll have a 3v1 on my hands. You never know any of this until you get into visual range and figure it all out. You have to make split second decisions based on how the fight unfolds. THAT is dogfighting!

DA is where you go to see which of two pilots knows how to handle a certain plane better. MA is where you find out who the really skilled pilots are. 

[artik]

Dueling arena is the best arena for training in clean environment

Back in old days of my squadron, we used to train there, 1vs1 2vs2 4vs4, mixed combinations, like 109s vs yaks+il2 etc.

It allows you to train ACM and battle skills without MA restrictions and yet with realistic damage.

Now, no matter how good you are as a pilot. In MA you may get into 1vs4 fight in disadvantage and your chances of survival would be close to 0.

So DA allows you to ran various setups in very easy way and unlike TE, it has read damage

[LCADolby]

The DA is the best place to go toe to toe with someone in the same plane with the same E, loser picks next plane etc.

The MA is a test of not just flying skill but of SA and friendlies willing to help and communicate.

The best pilots can do all of the above, arena doesn't mean squat.

[dirtdart]

In my best yosimite Sam voice "their honoh has been violated."  

A few years back when I finally figured the game out I got ticked off about being picked so I called a guy out to go to the da. We went he kicked my butt I swallowed my pride and that pretty much was the last time I went to the da for that reason. Yesterday however, I was starting to get a bit peeved because every bish I ran into at Tt hoed on the merges. I just logged. Htc saying that he likes people being dicks in the game has been seen as justification on 200 many times.

My 2 cents and iraqvet will yet again remind me that people will play the way they want to play and don't care what others think....

If you get picked in a 1 v 1 in TT get over it. If you get nailed taking off by a guy hovering over your base. Get over it don't up from a capped field. The da threat is a waste of 200 time and energy.

In terms of not being able to kill a guy in a tank and getting bombs, or only ho merging, frankly it ruins gameplay. The bulk of the players in the game play because it requires an element of finesse to shoot another down or to gv well. I used to see multi hundred players on line and now numbers dwindle. I attribute this largely to the console gamer attitude of many of the players. Quick fast ugly kill name on lights.

If you are reading this and want to learn to gv or acm, just pm me. Lets work together to make the game and the community both more enjoyable and challenging.

[Copprhed]

200 is a waste of resources, first of all. The DA is a good place to go listen to the same crap spewed on 200 in the MA, except you hear it all over. Duels are just that, duels. They aren't representative of an overall war, nor do they truly represent all the skills needed to be successful in the MA. I don't bother challenging a rook or a bish, they, for the most part, aren't worth the time, other than to kill and get score off of. The DA doesn't count, I never even bother landing kills in there any more. In all the arenas, most players don't care about honor, skill or courtesy, they obviously weren't raised with those concepts....

[deadstikmac]

In all the arenas, most players don't care about honor, skill or courtesy....

While sad, this statement resonates with profound truth.

[bozon]

I've never been one for the DA. I'll go there with friends for a few sorties of screwing around, but the MA is where the real pilots are made. DA is only ever 1v1, co-alt, co-E, same plane matchup. How many times do you get something like that in the MA? Maybe less than 1% of the time.

Dogfights are never set in stone. I have never, in my 7+ years of playing this game, been in 2 fights that were the same. That's what I love about the MA! The unknown, you never know what you're going to get yourself into. You can kind of guess what might be going on based on Dar Bars (when they're working correctly), but what planes are the dots on radar? What altitude are they? How fast are they? What skill level is their piloting skills? Will I be engaged with one of them? Two of them? Maybe I'll have a 3v1 on my hands. You never know any of this until you get into visual range and figure it all out. You have to make split second decisions based on how the fight unfolds. THAT is dogfighting!

I agree with every word.

Generally I'd suggest to players to grow a thicker skin. However, if a player keep chest thumping and calling you to fight him in the DA to the point it annoys you - especially if he uses PMs, tell him that you agree and for him to meet you in the DA. Then let him dry up there while you go along about your normal MA business. Not nice? well, he was the annoying one first and this bought you a few minutes of quiet and a good laugh when he comes back furious.

[R 105]

 My problem with the DA is F-3 mode that many people in that arena use to make fantastic deflection shots they could never make in the MA. Not everyone does it and most of the players that are regulars in the DA are great guys. However the ones that do use F-3 makes me not want to go the the DA much.

[Butcher]

I've been in the MA, DA, FSO, Scenarios and Snapshots for a very long time. Its not about chest thumping in any cases - those who do are probably newbies anyhow or asssholes.

Main Arena is where you learn to fly different aircraft in different situations, flying with a squad helps although its not entirely needed - you learn to build SA here. Dualing Arena is where you learn to dogfight, I've lost more fights then I've won - I don't recall the last time someone was an amazinhunk about it and this goes back 4-5 years. I've had some blow outs where I lost 5 in a row, but I don't give up - I've won some 5-0. The whole point is to learn from the experience. Flying with TopGun I had to really balance out MA, DA, and Scenarios.

Learn at your own pace, don't settle for just one arena - people are going to be amazinhunks in every arena just enjoy the game and learn from mistakes.

To me I put all my MA and DA skills into FSO, Scenarios and Snapshots - these are what counts to me. If you are winning 5-0 in the DA try an FSO and see if you can land 5 kills.

Thus being said if someone is an amazinhunk in the DA, just ignore and find someone worthy to fly against and to learn from. For everyone 1 Ahole there are 9 to help.

[JunkyII]

The MA requires good SA and accuracy.... The DA requires a decent knowledge of ACM....The best pilots have the mix of both.

To me the MA is quite easy to score high in, which is why I'm always looking for 1v1s  in there but ones that are different the the DA setup...different planes different alts, those are the best fights in the game.

[Midway]

I've never been one for the DA. I'll go there with friends for a few sorties of screwing around, but the MA is where the real pilots are made. DA is only ever 1v1, co-alt, co-E, same plane matchup. How many times do you get something like that in the MA? Maybe less than 1% of the time.

Dogfights are never set in stone. I have never, in my 7+ years of playing this game, been in 2 fights that were the same. That's what I love about the MA! The unknown, you never know what you're going to get yourself into. You can kind of guess what might be going on based on Dar Bars (when they're working correctly), but what planes are the dots on radar? What altitude are they? How fast are they? What skill level is their piloting skills? Will I be engaged with one of them? Two of them? Maybe I'll have a 3v1 on my hands. You never know any of this until you get into visual range and figure it all out. You have to make split second decisions based on how the fight unfolds. THAT is dogfighting!

DA is where you go to see which of two pilots knows how to handle a certain plane better. MA is where you find out who the really skilled pilots are. 

Well said, Mr. Latrobe, Sir.  Very well said indeed.

[DmonSlyr]

Okay here is my $10 worth not 2 cents  

I've played for over 8 years and now I pretty much only fly Fighter sorties in the MA. I use to do bombing and tanks, but blahh boring to me now... was 2nd rank years ago in fighter rank and overall rank (not bragging) in the MA so I know how score and different types of fighting styles work in the MA and DA.

Main arena Tactics
Generally, they key to a good Main Arena Fighter pilot is the ability to get as many kills in one sortie as quickly as you can while being a precise/accurate shooter and then landing your kills every time you take off. (fighter rank score summed up in one sentence). Now... you may think that guy who is #15th fighter rank is pretty good (not actual 15th guy, just example) but how does this guy get most of his kills? does he hide 15k in a p51 and swoop and cherry pick kills - BnZ method. Does he fly dead on into a furball in a 109g14 out fly the crowd pick some kills and dodge BnZers - furballer method? He probably does both. His situtational awareness ables him to get kills while out maneuvering enemies that engage him. Now, does a BnZ pilot who lands and gets a lot kills picking and running make him a good fighter pilot? In WW2 hell yes! In AH, that is partial. Can the guy fight 1 v 1 in a situation where an enemy is chasing and catching him. How well can he reverse an enemy? The problem with the MA is that you tend to get 2, 3, or even 4 enemies on you at once. If your plane isn't fast enough, can you reverse them and possibly get 1 or 2 kills before you die? So lets not look at score, because for example, my fighter rank is 27th, but I die 66% of my sorties. Does that mean I am a bad MA pilot? No, I still have a 2.6 K/D. I just typically do not like constantly flying and running away (my style is furball/thrash/reverse-kill) But I use all of the styles. Granite I don't try for rank anymore. A good MA fighter pilot has the ability to get kills in almost every plane. A good MA pilot has the ability to use different fighting styles given the situation. A good MA fighter pilot can reverse, use ACM, and turn fighting skills to beat enemies who have the advantage. EVERYONE who flies in the MA has to cherry pick to get kills. The MA is unforgivable when it comes to who has the advantage in a fight. So how well can you reverse enemies, how well can you pick kills, how well can you fight 1 v 1, how well can you fight 2/3 v 1, when do you use some maneuvers compared to others in certain situations, how well your is your SA given the fighting style (like if your in a N1K2 surrounded by mostly p51s and 190Ds), how well do you use E management, and , and how many kills can you get before you land or die. These are what makes good MAers.

DA tactics.
The point of the DA is to have a fair 1 v 1 fight. Same alt, same plane, same gas, same ammo load out. The reason why so many people call out pilots in the MA to fight in the DA is because IMO the actual skill of fighting, acm knowledge, and plane knowledge is accurately depicted in a 1 v 1 fight. The general amount of pilots in the MA can BnZ and pick easy kills and run away all day long. But do these players have what it takes to actually win fights 1 v 1 when the conditions are the same. The general amount of new players believe that the DA is a ground and pound, slowest wins, who can our turn the other guy. However, the DA is perfect for learning all of the styles. You do not have to turn n burn every fight, if you know how to use E correctly in the same planes you can eventually BnZ them (ask EACE). the DA helps you learn how the planes actually fly. It helps you learn how to aim, it helps you learn how to manage E, and stalls, It helps you learn how to use the plane to its full potential, it helps you learn how to use reverse tactics, and helps you learn how to use your views correctly. The only thing you cannot do in the DA is run/HO. So this is why a lot of players challenge others to the DA, they want to see if they player actually knows more skills other than running away or HOing every chance when they lose advantage. I love going to the DA because believe it or not, it will make you 10X a better MA pilot. I have flown and fought against many of the best sticks in AH in the DA, believe me, i had my fair share of getting PWNed. But I learned from them through flying in the DA and learning real ACM, and throttle control. Now in the MA I know how to handle most situations given my E and their E, how to out maneuver them and how to gain the advantage, all from fighting top sticks in the DA 1 v 1. I think most of the MA sticks who do not fight in the DA, do not have half as much ACM skill or ability to win fights without an advantage. If your only style is BnZ and you do not ever learn ACM or reverse tactics. You are kidding yourself if you think you are a top AH stick.

Hope this isn't too long but there is a lot to know  

[Plawranc]

I have a lot of experience and like to think I can hold my own at the very least compared to the top sticks in the game. But it has been a long time since I have sat in the DA for 2 hours practicing and fighting the very top sticks in the game. I've just noticed that even though I am rusty as hell in the 1v1 competing scene. When I fly in MA, I generally steamroll through most people.

I just seem to find combats against other types of aircraft in varying conditions at varying altitudes far more challenging and stimulating than a 1v1 Co-E deck merging fight in the DA.

I do miss the old days of the Top Gun dueling crew with TnDep and DrBone though

[danny76]

Well said, Mr. Latrobe, Sir.  Very well said indeed.

Until you consider that Latrobe flies at a level that most can only dream of, is courteous and honourable, and I imagine is rarely asked to prove himself in the DA.

You on the other hand choose not to go to the DA because you feel it would rob you of whatever advantage you may find in the MA, which in my limited experience and even more limited contact with you, usually means a phenomenal alt and speed advantage coupled with a last minute HO shot .