Flaps usage in real combat

[Brooke]

AcesHigh doesn't properly model trim tabs. 

How so?

[J.A.W.]

& what about the defacto kommando-gerat-type engine management applied to US & Soviet
radial powered fighters, that certainly provides an unrealistic combat advantage too..

[LCADolby]

How so?

AH isn't equipped with any trim tabs, so it moves the whole elevator, rudder and ailerons

[Brooke]

AH isn't equipped with any trim tabs, so it moves the whole elevator, rudder and ailerons

All a trim system does (whether it is tabs, like most planes, or moving a whole stabilizer, like the 109) is change the zero-stick-force point.  That is exactly the effect in Aces High, and so it is completely realistic.

In other words, there is the graphics of what it looks like (such as "I don't see a trim tab moving") and there is the underlying math modeling (which is how the dynamics work, which is the important point).  You could have an airplane fly realistically and have graphics not show the control surfaces moving at all.  Graphics are just the look of it, not the working of it.

[FLS]

AH isn't equipped with any trim tabs, so it moves the whole elevator, rudder and ailerons

Actually trim tabs move the whole elevator, rudder, and ailerons. That's how they work.

[LCADolby]

Trim tabs move separately to that of the surface they are attached to.
This is not in AH.

[Brooke]

(Image removed from quote.)

Trim tabs move separately to that of the surface they are attached to.
This is not in AH.

The math of how AH handles it is correct.  Display is irrelevant to its modeling.

[J.A.W.]

Ok then Brooke, how does the Vne/compressibility/control forces stack up,
A-H/virtual vs real test results?

- i.e. F4U-1s should not be remaining combat manoeuvre controllable @ ~100mph over listed Vne..

Does the A-H virtual roll rates follow the published test figures for degree/speed ratios?

[LCADolby]

Brooke, I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm saying it isn't modelled like the picture I posted shows.

AH does not have proper 3D modelled trim tabs, but rather because it moves the whole control surface it is not modelled properly/correctly/fully.

I have not questioned the maths of how AH handles it.

[J.A.W.]

Does A-H include the improvement in aileron/roll performance allowed by spring tab ailerons
on aircraft such as the Tempest & F6F - which were fitted with them in later production series?

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/tempest/temproll.jpg

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f6f/jv224.pdf

[Brooke]

Does A-H include the improvement in aileron/roll performance allowed by spring tab ailerons
on aircraft such as the Tempest & F6F - which were fitted with them in later production series?

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/tempest/temproll.jpg

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f6f/jv224.pdf

I strongly suspect that it does.

AH models things based on flight-test data.   So, when they get results like roll rate vs. speed, it is modeled.

[Brooke]

Brooke, I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm saying it isn't modelled like the picture I posted shows.

AH does not have proper 3D modelled trim tabs, but rather because it moves the whole control surface it is not modelled properly/correctly/fully.

I have not questioned the maths of how AH handles it.

Yes, but the graphics are just how it looks.  The look of trim tabs (as long as the actual dynamics of how it is handled in the game is physically correct) is quite minor, in my opinion.  There are lots of things in the graphical depiction that are going to be short cuts.

[J.A.W.]

& how difficult is it for you Brooke, ( in order to allay suspicion & establish valid data)..

- to fly a Tempest test & compare A-H virtual performance with that actual test chart posted?

& then - how would any significant difference be resolved?

Same goes for the contentious F4U-1 Vne/compressibility A-H gross over-speed issue.


Here are some more fighter roll rates - as charted by NACA..

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/naca868-rollchart.jpg

[FLS]

& how difficult is it for you Brooke, ( in order to allay suspicion & establish valid data)..

- to fly a Tempest test & compare A-H virtual performance with that actual test chart posted?

& then - how would any significant difference be resolved?

Same goes for the contentious F4U-1 Vne/compressibility A-H gross over-speed issue.


Here are some more fighter roll rates - as charted by NACA..

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/naca868-rollchart.jpg

Why should Brooke test it? How about you test it and let us know if you notice any anomalies.  And please post data for your other claims.

[J.A.W.]

Why Brooke?

Coz.. he-da-man.. ..unless you got the goods too..

Do you carry the weight to make needful changes?

Have you checked on the F4U thread running currently - for corroborative data?

Earl has run the A-H F4U test-trip & it don't match the real-world test findings..