Lets see your lead turn

[RotBaron]

Wondering if you gents have some really good film(s) of them performing lead turns? Maybe even ones like Agent360 did where they are narrated letting us know what you are doing when you are doing it.

I understand the concept and that it can be used flat, vertical and in the oblique, but my execution lacks quite a bit. You may notice my response in the thread several below this one, and this is the inception for asking for film.

 I'll see where this goes before I ask anything else yet.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Sunka]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blQcADYuYfk

[deadstikmac]

Wayne Gretzsky's father would tell him " go to where the puck is going too be not where it is at"

I try to visulize where my con will be after his defencive move.

Also someone me to fly for position... Do not fly for the shot. If you sell the farm on a bad shot and miss... Then your out of position for the next.

[RotBaron]

Thanks Sunka for the link. I remember watching it a few times a year or so ago. Always good to refresh.

The one thing I'm struggling with is planning the merge and lead turn. I seem to find myself a lot where I don't have enough horizontal separation to avoid the HO. When I initiate the lead it has me in guns, often enough where I'm getting hit badly or worse. If they miss I've got 'em, but a good HO shoot'r has me.

I remember being told to plan the merge as soon as you see the dot. I should probably add (if it's relevant) a lot of these happen in base defense situations, where the bogey has considerable advantage in both E states. So while I'm trying to get level, get some speed, and set up to turn to his tail, he's bearing down guns blazing. I could HO too, but I'd rather not.

Visualization is my best method to learn. I can be told 1k times and sometimes it just doesn't make sense 'til I can see it. So the more videos the merrier. 

Thanks.

[BaldEagl]

Thanks Sunka for the link. I remember watching it a few times a year or so ago. Always good to refresh.

The one thing I'm struggling with is planning the merge and lead turn. I seem to find myself a lot where I don't have enough horizontal separation to avoid the HO. When I initiate the lead it has me in guns, often enough where I'm getting hit badly or worse. If they miss I've got 'em, but a good HO shoot'r has me.

I remember being told to plan the merge as soon as you see the dot. I should probably add (if it's relevant) a lot of these happen in base defense situations, where the bogey has considerable advantage in both E states. So while I'm trying to get level, get some speed, and set up to turn to his tail, he's bearing down guns blazing. I could HO too, but I'd rather not.

Visualization is my best method to learn. I can be told 1k times and sometimes it just doesn't make sense 'til I can see it. So the more videos the merrier.  

Thanks.

There's only one E state possible at any given moment which is made up of two components; speed and altitude.

But we knew what you meant.

I think you mean to ask about merge technique rather than a lead turn.  A lead turn is any turn that puts you inside your opponents turn circle no matter what the stage of the fight.

Lead pursuit = inside your opponent's turn
Lag pursuit = outside your opponent's turn
Pure pursuit = matching your opponent's turn

From any of these you can "pull lead" for the shot.

Typically during a merge you don't try to pull lead or you get shot to hell as you've evidently found out.

[Redd]

There's only one E state possible at any given moment which is made up of two components; speed and altitude.

But we knew what you meant.

I think you mean to ask about merge technique rather than a lead turn.  A lead turn is any turn that puts you inside your opponents turn circle no matter what the stage of the fight.

Lead pursuit = inside your opponent's turn
Lag pursuit = outside your opponent's turn
Pure pursuit = matching your opponent's turn

From any of these you can "pull lead" for the shot.

Typically during a merge you don't try to pull lead or you get shot to hell as you've evidently found out.

Not sure I agree with is , I'll always be looking to lead turn on a merge , if they take a shot , even better , it means they just lost position. The amount of times that they'll make that shot is such a low percentage , I'll take that risk to gain angles "every" time. The lead turn  needs to have some separation , and needs to be a split second lead , not an obvious lead. Lead turn from below their nose with some oblique is the most safe/effective way , forces them to push nose down to take a shot which is never easy.

[BaldEagl]

Not sure I agree with is , I'll always be looking to lead turn on a merge , if they take a shot , even better , it means they just lost position. The amount of times that they'll make that shot is such a low percentage , I'll take that risk to gain angles "every" time. The lead turn  needs to have some separation , and needs to be a split second lead , not an obvious lead. Lead turn from below their nose with some oblique is the most safe/effective way , forces them to push nose down to take a shot which is never easy.

I agree that you want to begin to establish angles during the merge but it's not a lead turn.  A lead turn means you're leading your opponent.  Doing that at the merge is likely to give your enemy a full planeform shot at your belly if he's coming straight on.

I also agree with going low as an effective merge but your goal is to fly under your opponent, not through his gunsight so it's still not a lead turn.  If anything it's a lag turn through the merge.

[Redd]

I agree that you want to begin to establish angles during the merge but it's not a lead turn.  A lead turn means you're leading your opponent.  Doing that at the merge is likely to give your enemy a full planeform shot at your belly if he's coming straight on.

I also agree with going low as an effective merge but your goal is to fly under your opponent, not through his gunsight so it's still not a lead turn.  If anything it's a lag turn through the merge.

I've always thought of it as a lead turn , but I dont study the language too much. I'd also use it as a way to measure up the enemy on the merge , if he pulls for the HO and I hear guns firing on the merge , i would categorize him right there.

[Oldman731]

I should probably add (if it's relevant) a lot of these happen in base defense situations, where the bogey has considerable advantage in both E states.

I'll bow to others' opinions (as always), but if you're low and slow and the other guy is diving on you at the merge, a lead turn probably isn't going to help you much.  Avoid the HO however you usually do, try to conserve your energy while you bleed his, and plan your lead turn business for when you have roughly equivalent energy states.

- oldman

[FLS]

A lead turn is an early turn, started before you pass the bandit on the merge. It's not the same as lead pursuit. Timing the lead turn is critical and requires practice.

[BaldEagl]

A lead turn is an early turn, started before you pass the bandit on the merge. It's not the same as lead pursuit. Timing the lead turn is critical and requires practice.

I guess you're right.  Had to check Shaw.

[FLS]

Here's a short video that starts with a lead turn followed by a high yoyo, stall horn, stall buffet, lag pursuit, low yoyo, lead pursuit, and flaps to lower stall speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3NfNjIju2s

[JimmyD3]

Well done Sunka!

[wpeters]

I'll bow to others' opinions (as always), but if you're low and slow and the other guy is diving on you at the merge, a lead turn probably isn't going to help you much.  Avoid the HO however you usually do, try to conserve your energy while you bleed his, and plan your lead turn business for when you have roughly equivalent energy states.

- oldman

I normally will continue on after the merge if I have a lot less E than the con.  Let him bleed E in a reverse and trying to catch you.  When he is 1k away start a turn that will place your wing on his 12 at about 500-600m  go into a vertical climb and roll over.  At this time you will have a snapshot as he overshoots and trys to go vertical.

LtCondor

[-ammo-]

Lead turn - http://www.mediafire.com/download/qw8cr292uqz65rb/Merge+Tactics_HO+Avoidance.ahf