Author Topic: Kiss the ground  (Read 773 times)

Offline Getback

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Kiss the ground
« on: December 17, 2013, 04:29:01 PM »
Posted this in the "Achievement System" Forum but thought maybe that wasn't the place. So it's double posted. Hope that is okay.

This is actually the second time I've done this. Once in an F6 prior to any achievements. The f6 suffered a bit more damage than this f4-1d. I was missing at least one flap on the F6 if I recall correctly. Both times it was dive bombing a  cv. In the f6 I took additional hits from the puffy ack or a gunner, not sure.

Set my salvo 2 to dispense with the rockets. Dove in from 12k which is my favorite dive bombing alt for the f4. Scoring some hits with my rockets I backspaced to my bombs and let them go. As soon as they were gone I started pulling back on the stick just praying I make it out cleanly but I didn't. I took a hit but wasn't sure of the damage. But then the plane nosed up severely. I thought "oh no" the tail is gone. Looking back it looked like I had a tail and I was going up out of control. Checking damage I was missing my elevators and something else. Not sure what. Missing my elevators the plane shot up to about 7k and was tending to loop. I had to get it level immediately. A loop may have caused me to auger since I wouldn't be able to pull out.

Finally I gained a semblance of control by lowering my landing gear. From my experience the f6 I knew lowering the gear would bring the nose down. Unlike the F6 I had my flaps. So when the nose started lowering I hit the flaps for lift. Then there was throttle control. I couldn't go over 120 IAS without the nose lifting excessively. Now there was enemy in the area. I saw 2 f4s on the deck. Then I had to go to Furball Island and I was a ways from the radar circle. In fact I was still in A84s radar. Once some kind of control was gained I was going the wrong way, parallel to furball Island, base 85. So I had to maneuver from south to east with out lowering the nose to much.

Once in the right direction I had to combat the tediousness of the flight. For one, as mentioned I was only doing about 120. I cured this by alternating between flaps and no flaps and all the while leaving my gear down. That gave me a speed of near 200. Then I had to carefully lose altitude so I could come in for a smooth landing. Knights radar was down and my intended landing base was flashing. Thoughts of landing at another base were consumed me for a time. Finally I just committed to the closest base flashing or not. At any moment someone could knock me out of the sky and it wouldn't take much. After what seemed a millennium I made it to sight of the base and I only was about 2k in alt. Then thank goodness I made a smooth landing.

One trivia tidbit is the 2 kills were on the same guy from the same JABO attack. I killed him with rockets and then with the bombs. Amazing. Not sure if I got the cv but I think I did and that is what killed him the second time.

« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 04:31:45 PM by Getback »

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Offline olds442

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Re: Kiss the ground
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2013, 04:38:29 PM »
wtg  :aok. I hate landing with no elevators, seems the kissing the ground part is the hardest...
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Offline Getback

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Re: Kiss the ground
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2013, 04:44:32 PM »
wtg  :aok. I hate landing with no elevators, seems the kissing the ground part is the hardest...

The trick is #1 keep the gear down, #2 use flaps if you have both alternating between raising and lowering (throttle up and down if you don't to keep the nose level), and #3 Throttle control even if you have flaps. On the later a little throttle goes a long ways.

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Offline colmbo

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Re: Kiss the ground
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2013, 04:45:59 PM »
If you have an uncontrolled pitch up you can roll to knife edge to bring the nose down, then roll back wings level once nose down.  Once had to do that in a Cessna 206 with a jammed elevator, it took a few cycles until I got the right power setting for stabilized flight.
Columbo

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Offline Getback

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Re: Kiss the ground
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2013, 04:47:08 PM »
If you have an uncontrolled pitch up you can roll to knife edge to bring the nose down, then roll back wings level once nose down.  Once had to do that in a Cessna 206 with a jammed elevator, it took a few cycles until I got the right power setting for stabilized flight.

Yikes! In real life I cannot imagine.

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Offline guncrasher

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Re: Kiss the ground
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2013, 03:11:34 AM »
you talk as if it was a big deal.  most players on satuday nights will kiss the ground after way too many budlights.  and bishops will kiss the ground with no alcohol after diving in with p38's on a gv base.


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Offline Citabria

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Re: Kiss the ground
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2013, 05:44:33 AM »
If you have an uncontrolled pitch up you can roll to knife edge to bring the nose down, then roll back wings level once nose down.  Once had to do that in a Cessna 206 with a jammed elevator, it took a few cycles until I got the right power setting for stabilized flight.

inquiring minds want to know more.

you have to share this one colmbo. details! have to read more about this!
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Offline mbailey

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Re: Kiss the ground
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2013, 05:49:55 AM »
If you have an uncontrolled pitch up you can roll to knife edge to bring the nose down, then roll back wings level once nose down.  Once had to do that in a Cessna 206 with a jammed elevator, it took a few cycles until I got the right power setting for stabilized flight.

 :O    nice save  :aok
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Offline dirtdart

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Re: Kiss the ground
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2013, 09:06:16 AM »
B29 probably the easiest to land with no elevators in game.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Kiss the ground
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2013, 10:28:05 AM »
I managed to succesfully land an A-20 with both wingtips, elevators and rudder gone. Got already damaged plane and then someone tried to vulch me on landing. Rolled 4 times on ground and landed on the runway.  :banana:
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Offline bmused55

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Re: Kiss the ground
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2013, 10:53:38 AM »
I tore off my elevators, ailerons and rudder pulling out of a dive in an A20.  The flight back was... interesting. I steered with differential engine power. Took me 30 minutes. Greased the landing too. Although I didn't want to risk lining up with the runway which was perpendicular to my course, so I landed on the grass and rolled onto the runway for a successful landing.

Then there was the incident where I tore my elevators and airlerons of a mossie and managed to limp home and land it.

So far, the most badly damaged plane I've gotten home was a P51 with only half of the left wing remaining and one elevator missing.

I like the challenge :)

Offline colmbo

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Re: Kiss the ground
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2013, 11:57:55 AM »
inquiring minds want to know more.

you have to share this one colmbo. details! have to read more about this!

I was hauling skydivers with a P206, door up front instead of the cargo door aft.

My normal procedure at the drop was as soon as last jumper away roll hard right to eyeballs jumpers clear then left rudder to close door while letting the nose drop then throttle up to the power setting used for the descent.  I wouldn't trim all the elevator pressure off since I would need to roll in a lot of down for the dive.  The initial pitch angle would be 30-50 degrees nose low, with the low starting speed I could get rid of a bunch of altitude before speed built I had to pull up to keep speed at an acceptable level.  All that only took a few seconds…10-15 maybe…never timed it.

This time as I started coming in with power the airplane started pitching up.  I figured I had too much up trim and pushed the yoke but it didn't move.  WTF?  Nose above the horizon now, I push real hard…yoke doesn't budge.   Hmmmmm.  I turned and looked at the tail and see what looked like a glove jammed between the end of the stab and the elevator mass balance.  The elevator was stuck at about 1/2 up deflection.  By now nose is well above horizon and speed dropping off so I rolled hard left and let the nose slice below the horizon.  When I rolled wings level it starts pitching up a bit more aggressively this time because I had more speed from the slice down.  About here I called the manifest girl, happened to be my lovely wife Bobbi, and have her switch to company freq.  When she gets switched over I tell here that I have a control malfunction, elevator is jammed.  I tell her I'm south of the DZ and working toward the mudflats (also south of the DZ).  I tell her to go out and get eyeball on me that I may have to bail out of the aircraft.  Bobbi is a skydiver with a gold medal in world competition, has participated in world record large skydives, she is an AFF instructor and Tandem master and a registered nurse.  She's pretty cool under pressure.  Her reply to me was a simple, firm "Roger!"..

While I'm talking to her I'm still trying to find a sweet spot with the power to get things balanced out…in the process did a couple pretty spiffy wingovers until I started thinking and got off the power sooner and used reduced bank angles to get things stabilized.  

Meantime she's got the boss on the radio and he and I come to the same conclusion -- force the elevator to move to get the glove out.  What could possible go wrong.   :devil

I zipped up the flight suit, tighten the parachute harness and put my gloves on just in case I had to make a skydive.  I figured I would pull instead of push, more comfortable with + g and pushing points me toward the dirt.  I had to pull very hard, I was concerned about breaking the yoke or something in the control system, but I could tell the elevator was moving a little bit and finally it gave and came back to almost full up elevator and of course that honked the nose up sharply.  I thought yippee and pushed the yoke forward only to find it was now stuck in an even worse position.  The next moments were the most intense with some creative aileron, rudder and throttle use I did some mini acro.  I wanted to be nose high before forcing the yoke forward in case it again stuck so I would have some time to haul back on it before I was to steep in the dive.

While I was wrestling the airplane I could hear the boss coming in broken on the radio.  What I didn't realize at the time was I was pushing the mic button as I was fighting the airplane and they were hearing me grunting, groaning and sweet talking the airplane.  I guess it was quite concerning for those on the ground. :)

Gave a big push on the yoke and it move full forward, airplane pitched over hard enough that my legs came up against the bottom of the panel and the airplane screamed.  I think it was downward flow over the wing root vents that made the noise, but it was a weird sound.  And of course the yoke stuck forward.  As I was moving it these times I could "feel" the glove….I imagined it was kind of rolling as I move the controls.  The elevator being stuck down isn't something you can control so I gave another big pull and this time I could tell that the elevator was free.  I told them that I was ok, airplane appeared ok and set up for a slow descent back to the field.

This had all started at 11000'.  When things came clear I was about 9500'…altitude is a good thing when you're working on issues --- unless the issue is fire.  Just a couple weeks earlier I had practiced flying without elevator control.  I "pinned" the yoke with one hand and played around with using power for pitch control, using bank to control pitch, etc.  Bored jump pilots have to do something to stay awake, this time it paid off.

We talked about it that night after jumping was over and pondered if it might have been better to just land with the jammed elevator.  If I hadn't known what was causing the jam that's what I would have done.  Since I could see the glove I figured it would be easy to work it out thinking "it's only a glove".

The airplane was ok, the skin at the end of the stab was bent where the glove was jammed.  Pretty amazing how "hard" a little bit of leather can be.  We have no idea where the glove came from.  None of the jumpers on the load was missing a glove, we speculate that it was inside the jumpsuit used by the tandem student and blew out as they exited.

The next weekend I posted on the bulletin board that due to this incident all future skydives will be done nude to prevent a repeat.   :D

Almost forgot.  After I took a leak and checked the airplane over Bobbi walked over and asked it I was ok.  "Sure!".  She said are you sure?  I said I'm okay.  She replied "Then get back in the airplane, I've got a bunch of loads manifested!!"
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 12:00:33 PM by colmbo »
Columbo

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."

Fate whispers to the warrior "You cannot withstand the storm" and the warrior whispers back "I AM THE STORM"

Offline Gman

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Re: Kiss the ground
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2013, 12:15:03 PM »
I got this achievement a while back in the Ki84, which I rarely fly.  I was bored, close to home, and used throttle and flaps like you did and ended up JUST pancaking it onto the runway, losing my wings and everything else, and sliding to a stop just on the edge of the pavement.  Good for a laugh, one of those non combat moments that was worth the price of admission for the month.

Columbo - thanks for that story, great stuff, and nicely done.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 12:17:14 PM by Gman »

Offline Citabria

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Re: Kiss the ground
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2013, 03:09:49 PM »
I was hauling skydivers with a P206, door up front instead of the cargo door aft.

My normal procedure at the drop was as soon as last jumper away roll hard right to eyeballs jumpers clear then left rudder to close door while letting the nose drop then throttle up to the power setting used for the descent.  I wouldn't trim all the elevator pressure off since I would need to roll in a lot of down for the dive.  The initial pitch angle would be 30-50 degrees nose low, with the low starting speed I could get rid of a bunch of altitude before speed built I had to pull up to keep speed at an acceptable level.  All that only took a few seconds…10-15 maybe…never timed it.

This time as I started coming in with power the airplane started pitching up.  I figured I had too much up trim and pushed the yoke but it didn't move.  WTF?  Nose above the horizon now, I push real hard…yoke doesn't budge.   Hmmmmm.  I turned and looked at the tail and see what looked like a glove jammed between the end of the stab and the elevator mass balance.  The elevator was stuck at about 1/2 up deflection.  By now nose is well above horizon and speed dropping off so I rolled hard left and let the nose slice below the horizon.  When I rolled wings level it starts pitching up a bit more aggressively this time because I had more speed from the slice down.  About here I called the manifest girl, happened to be my lovely wife Bobbi, and have her switch to company freq.  When she gets switched over I tell here that I have a control malfunction, elevator is jammed.  I tell her I'm south of the DZ and working toward the mudflats (also south of the DZ).  I tell her to go out and get eyeball on me that I may have to bail out of the aircraft.  Bobbi is a skydiver with a gold medal in world competition, has participated in world record large skydives, she is an AFF instructor and Tandem master and a registered nurse.  She's pretty cool under pressure.  Her reply to me was a simple, firm "Roger!"..

While I'm talking to her I'm still trying to find a sweet spot with the power to get things balanced out…in the process did a couple pretty spiffy wingovers until I started thinking and got off the power sooner and used reduced bank angles to get things stabilized.  

Meantime she's got the boss on the radio and he and I come to the same conclusion -- force the elevator to move to get the glove out.  What could possible go wrong.   :devil

I zipped up the flight suit, tighten the parachute harness and put my gloves on just in case I had to make a skydive.  I figured I would pull instead of push, more comfortable with + g and pushing points me toward the dirt.  I had to pull very hard, I was concerned about breaking the yoke or something in the control system, but I could tell the elevator was moving a little bit and finally it gave and came back to almost full up elevator and of course that honked the nose up sharply.  I thought yippee and pushed the yoke forward only to find it was now stuck in an even worse position.  The next moments were the most intense with some creative aileron, rudder and throttle use I did some mini acro.  I wanted to be nose high before forcing the yoke forward in case it again stuck so I would have some time to haul back on it before I was to steep in the dive.

While I was wrestling the airplane I could hear the boss coming in broken on the radio.  What I didn't realize at the time was I was pushing the mic button as I was fighting the airplane and they were hearing me grunting, groaning and sweet talking the airplane.  I guess it was quite concerning for those on the ground. :)

Gave a big push on the yoke and it move full forward, airplane pitched over hard enough that my legs came up against the bottom of the panel and the airplane screamed.  I think it was downward flow over the wing root vents that made the noise, but it was a weird sound.  And of course the yoke stuck forward.  As I was moving it these times I could "feel" the glove….I imagined it was kind of rolling as I move the controls.  The elevator being stuck down isn't something you can control so I gave another big pull and this time I could tell that the elevator was free.  I told them that I was ok, airplane appeared ok and set up for a slow descent back to the field.

This had all started at 11000'.  When things came clear I was about 9500'…altitude is a good thing when you're working on issues --- unless the issue is fire.  Just a couple weeks earlier I had practiced flying without elevator control.  I "pinned" the yoke with one hand and played around with using power for pitch control, using bank to control pitch, etc.  Bored jump pilots have to do something to stay awake, this time it paid off.

We talked about it that night after jumping was over and pondered if it might have been better to just land with the jammed elevator.  If I hadn't known what was causing the jam that's what I would have done.  Since I could see the glove I figured it would be easy to work it out thinking "it's only a glove".

The airplane was ok, the skin at the end of the stab was bent where the glove was jammed.  Pretty amazing how "hard" a little bit of leather can be.  We have no idea where the glove came from.  None of the jumpers on the load was missing a glove, we speculate that it was inside the jumpsuit used by the tandem student and blew out as they exited.

The next weekend I posted on the bulletin board that due to this incident all future skydives will be done nude to prevent a repeat.   :D

Almost forgot.  After I took a leak and checked the airplane over Bobbi walked over and asked it I was ok.  "Sure!".  She said are you sure?  I said I'm okay.  She replied "Then get back in the airplane, I've got a bunch of loads manifested!!"

great save! thanks for sharing. definitely a grace under pressure right stuff moment :)
Fester was my in game name until September 2013

Offline madrid311

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Re: Kiss the ground
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2013, 03:56:24 PM »
Posted this in the "Achievement System" Forum but thought maybe that wasn't the place. So it's double posted. Hope that is okay.

This is actually the second time I've done this. Once in an F6 prior to any achievements. The f6 suffered a bit more damage than this f4-1d. I was missing at least one flap on the F6 if I recall correctly. Both times it was dive bombing a  cv. In the f6 I took additional hits from the puffy ack or a gunner, not sure.

Set my salvo 2 to dispense with the rockets. Dove in from 12k which is my favorite dive bombing alt for the f4. Scoring some hits with my rockets I backspaced to my bombs and let them go. As soon as they were gone I started pulling back on the stick just praying I make it out cleanly but I didn't. I took a hit but wasn't sure of the damage. But then the plane nosed up severely. I thought "oh no" the tail is gone. Looking back it looked like I had a tail and I was going up out of control. Checking damage I was missing my elevators and something else. Not sure what. Missing my elevators the plane shot up to about 7k and was tending to loop. I had to get it level immediately. A loop may have caused me to auger since I wouldn't be able to pull out.

Finally I gained a semblance of control by lowering my landing gear. From my experience the f6 I knew lowering the gear would bring the nose down. Unlike the F6 I had my flaps. So when the nose started lowering I hit the flaps for lift. Then there was throttle control. I couldn't go over 120 IAS without the nose lifting excessively. Now there was enemy in the area. I saw 2 f4s on the deck. Then I had to go to Furball Island and I was a ways from the radar circle. In fact I was still in A84s radar. Once some kind of control was gained I was going the wrong way, parallel to furball Island, base 85. So I had to maneuver from south to east with out lowering the nose to much.

Once in the right direction I had to combat the tediousness of the flight. For one, as mentioned I was only doing about 120. I cured this by alternating between flaps and no flaps and all the while leaving my gear down. That gave me a speed of near 200. Then I had to carefully lose altitude so I could come in for a smooth landing. Knights radar was down and my intended landing base was flashing. Thoughts of landing at another base were consumed me for a time. Finally I just committed to the closest base flashing or not. At any moment someone could knock me out of the sky and it wouldn't take much. After what seemed a millennium I made it to sight of the base and I only was about 2k in alt. Then thank goodness I made a smooth landing.

One trivia tidbit is the 2 kills were on the same guy from the same JABO attack. I killed him with rockets and then with the bombs. Amazing. Not sure if I got the cv but I think I did and that is what killed him the second time.


                                                              
                        Congrats on your mission. I just received the same award in an A20. I was successful in the mission part, radar, structures, and gun emplacements but was too fast on the third dive. Was a blast trying to get her home. I love this game!
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