Black Fish.

[Rich46yo]

Apparently this is their response, "notice how it is only on their web page and they avoid informed debate". http://seaworld.com/en/ourcare/Letter?from=portal

I will attempt to answer each one with what i know, what has been alleged about them, or what I think. Mind you Im a bit cynical when it comes to money making corporations. Which is what Sea World is. It is NOT a animal welfare organization.

Here are some important facts about SeaWorld and our work:

    SeaWorld does not capture killer whales in the wild. Due to the groundbreaking success of our research in marine mammal reproduction, we haven’t collected a killer whale from the wild in 35 years. In fact, only two of the whales in our care were collected by SeaWorld and they continue to be in our care today. In addition, our research has led to a much greater understanding of whales in the wild, giving researchers important scientific insights surrounding marine mammal reproduction.

They dont capture them anymore because they are not allowed to. Also the ones they captured are almost all dead, most of them prematurely, and they have two males in their collection that supply enough sperm to keep their collection stable or growing. Simply put, choking a male orca's chicken is far cheaper, and far more PC, then capturing babies and killing some in the pod in the process.

   We do not separate killer whale moms and calves. SeaWorld recognizes the important bond between mother and calf. On the rare occasion that a mother killer whale cannot care for the calf herself, we have successfully hand raised and reintroduced the calf. Whales are only moved to maintain a healthy social structure.

"WE do not" does not mean "we never have". http://www.orcahome.de/orcastat.htm And how in hell do you maintain a "healthy social structure" when the orcas in the pool are all strangers to begin with?

   SeaWorld invests millions of dollars in the care of our killer whales. In the last three years alone, we have invested $70 million in our killer whale habitats and millions of dollars annually in support of these facilities.

 If they invest 70 m they must be making 140 m.

Our habitats are among the largest in the world today.

Gee thats saying a lot. Im sure the Russian ones are a real Luxury estate. The world wide parks are total crap holes.[/b]

They are state-of-the-art, multimillion-gallon environments of cooled and filtered water that allow for the highest and safest standards of care. We give our animals restaurant-quality fish, exercise, veterinary care, mental stimulation, and the company of other members of their species.

"Cooled and filtered water" thats priceless. They feed these animals frozen and dead for days fish and keep them "mentally stimulated" in a filtered bath tub. "Restaurant quality"?

   SeaWorld’s killer whales’ life spans are equivalent with those in the wild. While studies continue to define the average life span of killer whales in the wild, the most recent science suggests that our killer whales’ life spans are comparable — indeed, five of our animals are older than 30, and one of our whales is close to 50.

Lie! The life span of free roaming Orcas has been known for many years. And notice how they never mention all the ones that have croaked under their care?

   The killer whales in our care benefit those in the wild.

How? They arent squealing endangered!

We work with universities, governmental agencies and NGOs to increase the body of knowledge about and the understanding of killer whales

Joseph Mengele did something of the same.—

from their anatomy and reproductive biology to their auditory abilities.

That justifys torture of animals and the death/injuries of your employees?

Some populations of wild killer whales have been classified as endangered or threatened, demonstrating the potential critical nature of these research opportunities.

Again..How? What exactly are they learning about these things that justifys tormenting them for profit and putting your trainers at risk?

This type of controlled research and study is simply not possible in the wild, and has significant real-world benefits to the killer whales that live there.

Like what? In between the circus acts exactly WTF are they learning about these animals? Other then they make them a lot of money?

  

 SeaWorld is a world leader in animal rescue. The millions of people who visit our parks each year make possible SeaWorld’s world-renowned work in rescue, rehabilitation and release. We are constantly innovating when it comes to this care: Our veterinarians have created nursing bottles to hand-feed orphaned whales, prosthetics to save sea turtles, and a wetsuit to help injured manatees stay afloat during rehabilitation. Whether it’s the result of natural or man-made disasters, SeaWorld is always on call and often the first to be contacted. We have rescued more than 23,000 animals with the goal of treating and returning them to the wild.

Man I dont even know how to answer that one. Hahahahaha. 23,000 animals? Even if true, and I really doubt it, WTF does that have to do with tormenting orcas and whacking out your own trainers?

Most of you are familiar with corporation spin and double talk. Does this or doesnt it sound like a bunch of BS to you?

[Rich46yo]

If the case can be made that keeping Orca's in captivity is wrong, shouldn't the same be said for all the millions of horses kept in captivity?  They are subject to the same breeding techniques as the whales, the same captivity in corrals, the same veterinarian procedures, the are separated from their young for breeding purposes, they are sometimes eaten, or sold to the glue factory, they are used in entertainment shows like rodeos, horses races, and hundreds of other things......

I dont like double posting but horses are domesticated animals. Not wild ones. Yes there are wild horses but they arent what were talking about here. I'd also add that yes orcas and dolphins are far more intelligent and sentient then horses but cruelty to either should be unacceptable. Most of all for money making ventures that also put humans at great risk.

You wouldnt put horses in a stable for the rest of their lives would you? Thats the same equivalent of putting an orca, a mammal used to roaming 100 miles a day in open ocean, into. And then when the horse starts getting soft in the head from it throw in the trainer for the circus act.

I remember looking into a chimps eyes the last time I was at the zoo. It wasnt like a dog or horse looking at you, honestly it was more like a person looking back at you. He gave me a look like, "who is this schmuck eyeballing me?". From all accounts a dolphin or orca is just as smart, or near enough, and self aware. I think that fact just makes all of this that much worse. Or maybe we are all hippocrates but does that justify keeping these animals in such conditions ?

[NatCigg]

  sad movie.  dont think ill be giving them any money.  If my kids want to see some whales I tell them to get a job and we will go to washington and see them in the ocean.  Fair enough.




Think this penguin might want to "play" with this kids eye ball?

[68Raptor]

This reminds me.. new Game of Thrones trailer is out 

[FLOOB]

This just in, mom impressed by penguin <other word for beak that the forum replaces with the word donut>.

Seriously though, orcas have been observed killing for fun. I'm surprised at the amount of sympathy for these god spited pariahs.

[Butcher]

I live literally 20 minutes from seaworld in orlando, pretty much every day the PETA group and whoever else is always protesting against Sea World. I also know 2 of the trainers for seaworld, both women are extremely bright and love their animals. Problem is, Seaworld is a business - whatever brings them money is good, however the actual care of the animals is appalling, the trainers know that but they lie to themselves and believe the animals are "better off".

This being said, honestly the problem is if the animal is born at Sea world, it doesn't know how to survive, if released back into the wild it would be killed because it wasn't born in the environment, instead its born in a holding tank. Honestly I have no opinion on sea world, from the trainers I know they generally care for the animals, the company however needs to stop putting profits first which will never happen.

They don't mistreat the animals that I know if, however if you are willing to get in a tank with a killer whale, good luck to ya and I hope you get paid enough to do that kinda crap.

/I wouldn't visit sea world because frankly I don't care, but the tree huggers can stop whining and go bother someone else, their relentless whining over stupid crap is really annoying. Imagine Jehovan witness coming to your door 4 times a week, "HI WE WANT TO SELL YOU RELIGION!" this is all PETA and the other protesters are trying to do, they have no solid evidence sea world "damages the animals" if they did sea world would of been closed a long time ago.
//I have horses in a ranch in montana, I guess because they are fenced in I am just like Sea world? LOL

[FLOOB]

I'm guessing that you didn't watch the movie.

[Butcher]

I'm guessing that you didn't watch the movie.

Still waiting to see if its authentic or not before I rush to watch a propaganda film.

[Rich46yo]

Seriously though, orcas have been observed killing for fun. I'm surprised at the amount of sympathy for these god spited pariahs.

Humans do far worse. Nor has there ever been a recorded incident in the wild where an orca "kills for fun". The trainers killed? Who knows what caused it, but one has to consider being locked in, what amounts to, a closet for years on years would make a sentient creature go a little nuts. They are so big and powerful they very well didnt even know their actions would cause a death and there has never been a human killed by an orca in the wild.

This being said, honestly the problem is if the animal is born at Sea world, it doesn't know how to survive, if released back into the wild it would be killed because it wasn't born in the environment, instead its born in a holding tank. Honestly I have no opinion on sea world, from the trainers I know they generally care for the animals, the company however needs to stop putting profits first which will never happen.

They can put the captive orcas in actual sea envirements, surrounded by barriers, and either let them learn to survive or just plain release them and let them take their chances. Either is more humane then what they are doing. And it could happen, as quickly as a Judge pounding a gavel can make it happen.

They don't mistreat the animals that I know if, however if you are willing to get in a tank with a killer whale, good luck to ya and I hope you get paid enough to do that kinda crap.

You dont call that mistreatment? BTW An employer does have liability over what conditions it puts its employees in. Most of all when it covers up and doesnt tell its employees about them, like with this orca that killed those people. When they originally got him Sea World didnt tell any of its trainers the animal was a killer.

they have no solid evidence sea world "damages the animals" if they did sea world would of been closed a long time ago.

No other then 3 dead people and many injuries, as well as the opinions of many experts, they have "no solid evidence".

//I have horses in a ranch in montana, I guess because they are fenced in I am just like Sea world? LOL

Do your horses roam 100 miles a day, talk to each other, and live in very close family groups? I think the equivalent would be putting your horses in a stall for its entire life. Which would be cruel even for an animal thats not self aware like a horse.

Still waiting to see if its authentic or not before I rush to watch a propaganda film.

If your waiting for Sea Worlds reply your going to have a long wait.

[Butcher]

Humans do far worse. Nor has there ever been a recorded incident in the wild where an orca "kills for fun". The trainers killed? Who knows what caused it, but one has to consider being locked in, what amounts to, a closet for years on years would make a sentient creature go a little nuts. They are so big and powerful they very well didnt even know their actions would cause a death and there has never been a human killed by an orca in the wild.

This is speculation, "never been a recorded incident in the wild" - you mean there has to be a reported incident for it to be true/false? Does a tree fall in the woods make a sound? what if it wasn't recorded by two witnesses I guess it means trees don't make a sound when they fall, what about the Bermuda triangle? there are tons of things in life we haven't explained yet, just because an orca hasn't capsized a boat and killed the crew doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I agree locking someone up in a closet for years would make a human go nuts, but how do we know the creature went nuts? Problem is there is no scientific fact to say otherwise. We can't even understand the creature let alone decide whether its in a safe environment or not.

Yes my horses roam 12 acres of land, I put them in a barn only when bad weather approaches - generally they find their way home, kind of like my german shephard who roams as he pleases and comes home at night.

I'm not worried about Sea World, again its a business, however there is only one side to the story - whether an ORCA is a killer or not, this reminds me of a few years back when a neighbor down the road bought some horses, one kicked him in the stomach and it killed him - does this mean all wild horses are dangerous and they should not be owned? I've had mine 3 years now, and not one has been fussy at all, same for my German Shep - perhaps the way they get treated makes a difference, its tough to say I am not a doctor who specializes or a scientist in animal behavior, but I can say for fact my animals are tame as possible,
and I have no experience owning horses or dogs.

Sea World has its own explaining to do, whether they reply to the movie its a question they have to answer for themselves.

[Rich46yo]

This is speculation, "never been a recorded incident in the wild" - you mean there has to be a reported incident for it to be true/false? Does a tree fall in the woods make a sound? what if it wasn't recorded by two witnesses I guess it means trees don't make a sound when they fall, what about the Bermuda triangle? there are tons of things in life we haven't explained yet, just because an orca hasn't capsized a boat and killed the crew doesn't mean it didn't happen.

At this point of the game I think its pretty much safe to say its highly unlikely a orca will kill a human in the wild.

I agree locking someone up in a closet for years would make a human go nuts, but how do we know the creature went nuts? Problem is there is no scientific fact to say otherwise. We can't even understand the creature let alone decide whether its in a safe environment or not.

There never will be either, unless someone learns to speak orca. . But does that stop us from using common sense? That it is not a safe environment has been established as there has been dozens of incidents, attacks, and even deaths reported.

Yes my horses roam 12 acres of land, I put them in a barn only when bad weather approaches - generally they find their way home, kind of like my german shephard who roams as he pleases and comes home at night.

Sounds like your someone who should be showing empathy for the oracas kept in the bath tub then.

I'm not worried about Sea World, again its a business, however there is only one side to the story - whether an ORCA is a killer or not, this reminds me of a few years back when a neighbor down the road bought some horses, one kicked him in the stomach and it killed him - does this mean all wild horses are dangerous and they should not be owned? I've had mine 3 years now, and not one has been fussy at all, same for my German Shep - perhaps the way they get treated makes a difference, its tough to say I am not a doctor who specializes or a scientist in animal behavior, but I can say for fact my animals are tame as possible,
and I have no experience owning horses or dogs.

I guess Im just missing the analogy.

Sea World has its own explaining to do, whether they reply to the movie its a question they have to answer for themselves.

Which they arent! doing. Corporate spin isnt "explaining", in fact, they are refusing to even get involved in the discussion.

Merry X-mas to you and all.

[mthrockmor]

Just watched it.

These are wild animals designed to kill. Is it a shock? Then throw in these animals being in stressful situations, essentially solitary confinement, etc. I'm the exact opposite of a tree hugger, I'm not taking a PETA approach.

Good info and clearly this show engages from the bias of Sea World is at fault.

On another subject, do we still see lion tamers sticking their heads in the mouths of lions? Or, after enough attacks in cages have they stopped that? Just wondering.

Boo

[Megalodon]

So!.......how do you feel about Bullfighting? or Rodeo? Circus?

Stab it a few times, make your self safer....... then go joust with it.


One could argue that rodeo bulls are trained just like fighting dogs....


How about traveling around the country in a cage on a train jumping out every 150 miles or so to do a show.


 

[mthrockmor]

Half of my family are hunters, trappers, etc. They have been around individuals killed by wolves (just a few times), killed and eaten by brown and polar bears, and when it comes to killer whales I've heard of them attacking and sinking small boats. I didn't read of the people being killed but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Clearly, those that lost the boat but weren't killed, lived to tell the tale. Those who were killed by the whales....didn't. I know, I've create an impossible situation though I would not be surprised at all to learn that it has happened.

boo

[Bear76]

So!.......how do you feel about Bullfighting? or Rodeo? Circus?

Stab it a few times, make your self safer....... then go joust with it.


One could argue that rodeo bulls are trained just like fighting dogs....


How about traveling around the country in a cage on a train jumping out every 150 miles or so to do a show.


 

A lot of cattle live in a confinement setting.