"Suicide" Killers

[BaldEagl]

That is my complaint about the "suicide killers". One player can kill a bunch of radars all along the front lines within 15 or 20 minutes. To me that is gaming the game, which is no benefit to the quality of the game.

One player in a 190A-8 can do that without augering or carrying ord.  Just fly from base to base taking out the radar with cannons in a single pass.  I've watched it happen and it's much faster than augering and having to re-up.

Likewise a light bomber like a Boston or Mosquito can do the same dropping from some alt and with little chance of being intercepted.

The suicide bombers are only hurting their own scores and taking longer to accomplish their objectives than a more effective player.

So if the real complaint is your radar being taken out then I'm afraid the only way to stop that is to kill them before they get to your field.  Imagine having to do something like that in a combat game.  Other than that the only other way to stop it is to wish for indestructable radar and I presume you'de want that only for your side.

[Scca]

One player in a 190A-8 can do that without augering or carrying ord.  Just fly from base to base taking out the radar with cannons in a single pass.  I've watched it happen and it's much faster than augering and having to re-up.....

In theory yes, it's possible to kill them, but an 190 diving from 15K on wep is not likely to be caught by anything before they kill the dar and auger...  I know, I've tried.  About the only thing that I have seen work is to drive an Osti or Wirble to the tower, and hope you hit them before they kill the tower...

[BnZs]

Yes, the problems inherent in interception are made harder when there is no real downside to the bomb delivery aircraft not returning to base-and yes, for the most part not RTBing simply saves time on most base attack mission profiles, say hangar banging.

While we're proposing things that probably won't be implemented , I propose every single bit of ord carrying a perk price, but one that is only charged if you fail to land, as with perk aircraft and vehicles. Not a lot mind you, just enough to make players make a good-faith attempt to survive and RTB.

[Lusche]

Emphasizing survival too much may have consequences which aren't exactly what you are looking for...

[BnZs]

You probably mean even more emphasis on attacking completely undefended bases, or taking buffs to 30k, or b both. Funny thing is, the HTC team implemented a counterbalance to the "Hit 'em where they ain't" strategy years ago (the limited front). Force the horde to throw itself at the other horde? Great idea if you think about it long enough, too bad nobody liked it. I don't think I even liked it at the time, but it was because I preferred slightly smaller engagements off of the side of main front, which could easily be found at that period in the game.

Emphasizing survival too much may have consequences which aren't exactly what you are looking for...

It could be argued that right now most players are looking to truck heavy loads and kill inanimate objects because that actually matters a lot more to the map than our silly fighter twisty-turny air superiority scrum.

[Scca]

Yes, the problems inherent in interception are made harder when there is no real downside to the bomb delivery aircraft not returning to base-and yes, for the most part not RTBing simply saves time on most base attack mission profiles, say hangar banging.

While we're proposing things that probably won't be implemented , I propose every single bit of ord carrying a perk price, but one that is only charged if you fail to land, as with perk aircraft and vehicles. Not a lot mind you, just enough to make players make a good-faith attempt to survive and RTB.

Downside, hard for new players to bomb because they don't have the perk points to load bombs...:shrug:

I still attest that this is a cultural problem, not a game mechanics problem.  IMHO If the community would shun those who play like this, then it would be less prevalent.
 

[Wiley]

I still attest that this is a cultural problem, not a game mechanics problem.  IMHO If the community would shun those who play like this, then it would be less prevalent.
 (Image removed from quote.)

Oh lookee!  A horse!  Where's my stick...

Shunning people doesn't really seem to do much.  If browbeating and shunning worked, HOing would be non existent because anytime a lot of people get HOed 200 lights up like a Christmas tree.

I'm not a huge fan of people who don't make a token effort to survive, particularly the jabocides as described here.  Unfortunately I've never seen a solution that wasn't extraordinarily easy to get around or if it wasn't had a really good chance of penalizing legitimate players who are either unskilled or unlucky.

Wiley.

[BnZs]

Maybe I don`t have a problem with penalizing the unskilled and unlucky bomber... Anyway, the major issue is this: Basically direct air-to-air fighter engagements are almost irrelevant to the map moving aspect. How can one make them more relevant, that is a question. 

[Wiley]

Maybe I don`t have a problem with penalizing the unskilled and unlucky bomber... Anyway, the major issue is this: Basically direct air-to-air fighter engagements are almost irrelevant to the map moving aspect. How can one make them more relevant, that is a question. 

Irrelevant?  How so?  If you control the air over a field, it's not going to be attacked successfully.

Wiley.

[BnZs]

Irrelevant?  How so?  If you control the air over a field, it's not going to be attacked successfully.

Wiley.

Nope, it is very difficult to prevent determined bombers and jabos from getting in and doing the damage, even with a lot of friendly planes around the base. The attackers won't survive usually, but as we have seen that is not currently a deterrent.

[stabbyy]

Nope, it is very difficult to prevent determined bombers and jabos from getting in and doing the damage, even with a lot of friendly planes around the base. The attackers won't survive usually, but as we have seen that is not currently a deterrent.

agreed i have seen many times buffs going into high speed dives(eventually ripping wings off) just to hit they're target because they know they can re up with no ill effects and even though you may shoot them down... those bombs are still going to hit

or lancs coming in at 500ft spiking to 800ft dropping full load before getting killed by ack because again... its simple easy no ill effect

or watching b24s/17s/lancs/b26s suicide into CV

all this has nothing to do with air superiority just people knowing that surviving has no benefit to them because they'res no consequences so they do something they would not really do if it had a negative effect


what air cover does stop however... is vulchers... and gv runs as well as high alt planes... but catching up to a lanc in a 400mph dive who has no intend to pull up or the one at 500 ft who dropped from 5k goin 380+ who knows ack will kill him...but as long as he bombs his target...... it wont matter


simplest option... ords over a certain weight/class/time be perked...

still think letting people take off with X amount of ords in X amount of mins is best solution

[Scca]

Oh lookee!  A horse!  Where's my stick...

Shunning people doesn't really seem to do much.  If browbeating and shunning worked, HOing would be non existent because anytime a lot of people get HOed 200 lights up like a Christmas tree.

I'm not a huge fan of people who don't make a token effort to survive, particularly the jabocides as described here.  Unfortunately I've never seen a solution that wasn't extraordinarily easy to get around or if it wasn't had a really good chance of penalizing legitimate players who are either unskilled or unlucky.

Wiley.

Not do much?  Well maybe...or maybe not. 

When I first started, I did a lot of things that were considered dweeby. When someone said "hey, that's not cool" I eventually learned not to do them.  People can change.

[Tank-Ace]

Irrelevant?  How so?  If you control the air over a field, it's not going to be attacked successfully.

Wiley.

So they move to the base you're not defending.

IMO, we need to de-emphasize controlling territory, since it leads to the bombing of inanimate objects to a degree that is unhealthy for the game.

Specific objective bases might solve the problem. Get there any way you like, take it however you want, but you have to take it.


Flash-hording an out of the way base no longer does anything for the war-tards, and no longer will losing a peripheral vehicle base 100 miles from anything important force your chess piece to capitulate.

[Zoney]

So they move to the base you're not defending.
IMO, we need to de-emphasize controlling territory, since it leads to the bombing of inanimate objects to a degree that is unhealthy for the game.
Specific objective bases might solve the problem. Get there any way you like, take it however you want, but you have to take it.
Flash-hording an out of the way base no longer does anything for the war-tards, and no longer will losing a peripheral vehicle base 100 miles from anything important force your chess piece to capitulate.

What's unhealthy for the game is taking away something that people like to do, especially when it does not really affect your gameplay.  If you take away what they like doing, that does not mean they are going to suddenly change and play the way you want or you do, they might just leave.  I'm not sure why you think bombing "inanimate objects" is bad for the game.  They want to do that, there are guys like me who will hunt them down, and there are guys who will help defend them and engage me.  Everybody wins.

[Wiley]

What's unhealthy for the game is taking away something that people like to do, especially when it does not really affect your gameplay.  If you take away what they like doing, that does not mean they are going to suddenly change and play the way you want or you do, they might just leave.  I'm not sure why you think bombing "inanimate objects" is bad for the game.  They want to do that, there are guys like me who will hunt them down, and there are guys who will help defend them and engage me.  Everybody wins.

It's the ciiiiiiircle of liiiiiiiife...

The one counter I'd put to that point is, a suicide jabo 190 isn't adding terribly much to others' gameplay unless you happen to catch him from above about 1/4 of the way from his base to yours.  Otherwise, he just goes into a shallow dive and a fair bit has to go right for you to get anything resembling a shot at him unless you're really in the right place at the right time.

If I see something I'm expecting to be a 'radar hero' co-alt or above me, unless I'm smack in the middle of his approach vector I generally don't bother even trying to engage him.

Wiley.