Ta-152 firepower

[Butcher]

1 or 2 of the C prototypes was/were put into action.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,351620.0.html

The best gun package was/would have been on the B model.
(Image removed from quote.)



 

It would of been a hell of a gun package, except it wasn't even a prototype, but a concept on paper. I can't imagine something like this in production, especially in production - imagine it in aces high? LOL Perk bomber murder...

[mthrockmor]

So, in looking at that last picture the length of the barrel on the two different 30mms suggests a much different velocity and thus trajectory. Is that accurate?

boo

[bustr]

MK108 had a 23 inch barrel. What you are looking at is the pass through tube through the engine. The drawing is incorrect for the barrel\collet adaptor for bolting into the rear of the engine pass through tube that you are mistaking for a barrel. About where the neck down to the tube happens is where the MK108 barrel ends.

The barrel was 23 inches to keep the recoil at a minimum and why it had such poor ballistics. Only 500m\sec. Part of the recoil strategy was that the round was ignited before full battery to allow pressure to escape down the barrel.

MK108



MK108, Barrel adaptor, pass through tube still connected. The tube enters into the rear end of the DB605 or Jumo 213E. The square flang bolts to the rear of the engine.



Note the rear of the engine is a square flange attached to the beginning of the engine pass through for mounting auto canon. That is where the square flange on the MK108 bolts to.

[morfiend]

So, in looking at that last picture the length of the barrel on the two different 30mms suggests a much different velocity and thus trajectory. Is that accurate?

boo

  If you are refering to the pic the mega posted,yes the hub gun is the Mk103 and the wing 30 mm are the Mk108's. The hubgun is the same as used on the 410 except it doesnt have the muzzle brake.



   

[Butcher]

I think the Ta-152C-5 was suppose to be armed with five MG 151/20mm. It was later changed to a engine mounted MK 103 and one MK 108 in each wing instead of the 20mm.

What I don't understand, this was to be named the TA 152 B-5? I'm guessing this is a mistake as a the correct would be TA 152 C-5.

The last version drawn up was the Ta 152C-1/R14 which was to be a torpedo bomber. Interestingly the RLM asked for a torpedo bomber in December 12th 1944, what's interesting is the FW-190 was also chosen to carry the torpedo. Kurt Tank designed both aircraft, Tank was going to build both the FW 190  F16/R-14 and the TA 152 C-1/R14 at the same time so he could test both, one of the issues was the directional stability of the massive torpedo.

Unfortunately he was planning on doing the mockup and test in March 1945, to late to be made, one thing that hindered the build of the ta-152 is the production did not start on the Ta 152C yet, also the factories being bombed destroyed his only mockup. I have the photo of the TA152C with DB603 LA, so I know the aircraft was built, unfortunately it was to late in the war.

Would of been interesting to see how it flew, I always knew there was a FW190 prototype for carrying a Torpedo, I had no clue Tank wanted both built to test them both.

[GScholz]

They also tested it earlier. 190A-5/U14.

[Butcher]

They also tested it earlier. 190A-5/U14.

(Image removed from quote.)

What is the major differences between the 190A-5/U14 and the 190F-16/U14? I know the 190A5 was an earlier design that could of been in production but for whatever reason they didn't. The RLM asked for an upgraded version of the 190F/Ta-152 to carry a torpedo as well.

I do know the RTS wanted 20 152C's for testing on a broad scale of different weapon configurations, but due to the war situation it never happened, i.e the torpedo Ta-152 was being modified to carry the torpedo when the prototype was destroyed, there is a photo of it carrying a mock torpedo, but I cant find it.
I'm curious what the other gun packages/bomb configurations were going to be, I think the idea was having the Ta-152C as a medium alt attack plane, where the Ta-152H was a high alt fighter.

Unfortunately so late in the war, none of the prototypes or designs were made due to the war.

[GScholz]

The 190F-8/U2 and U3 were torpedo bombers. Also had torpedo sighting system fitted. Don't think they ever dropped a torp in anger though that late in the war. Perhaps against the Soviets in the Baltic.

[Butcher]

The 190F-8/U2 and U3 were torpedo bombers. Also had torpedo sighting system fitted. Don't think they ever dropped a torp in anger though that late in the war. Perhaps against the Soviets in the Baltic.

I'm not sure either, I read about the 190 with the torpedo, but haven't done any real reading on the 190F/G model to see if they dropped any torps in anger, it would be interesting to find out, I wouldn't mind this for scenarios if they were built and used in combat.

[morfiend]

I'm not sure either, I read about the 190 with the torpedo, but haven't done any real reading on the 190F/G model to see if they dropped any torps in anger, it would be interesting to find out, I wouldn't mind this for scenarios if they were built and used in combat.

  AFAIK  the 190's never used the torp. There were simply too many problems with it,the torps had to be altered,clipped lower fin,the tail wheel needed to be extended for clearance and this was a major issue as the tail wheel tended to fail.

  That Jappo publication has a pic of the mockup 152 with a torp but again I think it was more a publicity stunt than a real effort to get it working.

  Butcher,you mentioned that the 152G was supposed to be armed with outter 20mm,well it could mount either,just like our A8. Also that is a "B" in Mega's pic,they were to be the ground support versions.



   

  PS: the ultimate 152 would have been armed with 4x 20 mm and 4xMk 108;s in the wings with the Mk103 as the motorcannon..... WOW!!!!

[bustr]

My apologies, your drawing was for a Mk103M version that was "anticipated" with a smaller barrel profile and adjusted round to reduce recoil to allow use in the K4 and Ta152 variations. The only use of the Mk103 as a HUB cannon was in the Do355 due to the weight of the aircraft being able to absorb the recoil and the frontal size allowing the mounting.

As we know ultimately the Ta152 that made it to combat used a MK103 as the HUB cannon.

Given a few more months the HUB cannon would have been the Mauser MK 213 30mm revolver cannon which was the post war design source for ADEN cannons.

[bustr]

Ahaaa!!

I found the MK108 adaptor for fitting into the DB605 and Jumo engines.

[alpini13]

according to luftwaffe records in the excellent ta-152 book that came out a couple of years ago. besides the experimental and prototype ta-152c aircraft..... TWO production models were accepted by the luftwaffe.......they never flew in combat,and may have been destroyed while dispersed awaiting deployment to a sqaudron

[Megalodon]

according to luftwaffe records in the excellent ta-152 book that came out a couple of years ago.

which is mostly taken from the from the OLD book.



 

[Megalodon]

Here's some technical data:
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab56/Misconduc/fw.jpg

Not to be nit picky    but the document you posted references 2x20mm and 2x15mm ....page 8.