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Author Topic: Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?  (Read 3453 times)

Offline Scherf

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Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?
« on: January 11, 2014, 03:45:02 AM »
Unless my eyes deceive me, the sequence starting at about 4:16 here:

https://archive.org/details/CS-2277

shows a Jugoon shooting a 109 off another Jugoon's tail. Never seen that before.

109 driver seems quite a slippery and skillful character.
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... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2014, 07:30:16 AM »
Interesting to note a fourth plane cut across the path of the filming Jug as well.  Nice find  :aok
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Offline LCADolby

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Re: Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2014, 07:49:58 AM »
I wouldn't say it was fixation, the poor chap is in a 109 he can't exactly look behind him all that well.
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Offline Nath[BDP]

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Re: Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2014, 10:57:35 AM »
Jesus, 8 .50s put down a reign of terror
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Offline Helm

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Re: Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2014, 03:15:47 PM »
Is that a P38 that slips into the film around 11:03?


Helm ...out
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Offline Scherf

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Re: Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2014, 07:01:33 PM »
Think so. What I can't ID is the a/c which first appears at 8:30. Some kind of 109 with rads open? Trick of the light?
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... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2014, 10:42:26 PM »
Quote from: Scherf on January 11, 2014, 07:01:33 PM
Think so. What I can't ID is the a/c which first appears at 8:30. Some kind of 109 with rads open? Trick of the light?

I'm thinking it might be another recce Spitfire taking friendly hits.  Looks like retractable tail wheel.  Might even be a PR19
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Offline Scherf

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Re: Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2014, 01:47:56 AM »
That was my first thought, my second was "Lord, not again."

Will have a squizzo for losses.
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... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Scherf

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Re: Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2014, 04:30:50 AM »
FWIW, Capt. Taylor's Encounter Report is here:

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/359-taylor-5aug44.jpg

Damndest Fw-190 I ever did see, but I can't find any evidence of any incidents with RAF recce birds which would fit.

Neither 541 nor 542 were even in the area that day, and there's no mention of any incident with 4, 16, 400 Sqns etc in the Shores/Thomas series on 2nd TAF.

I swear I can see Spitty rads, and when it dives over the nose looks like it has a chin scoop, as opposed to a radial engine.

Maybe USAAF? Maybe I just don't know my 190s...
« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 04:33:27 AM by Scherf »
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... missions were to be met by the commitment of alerted swarms of fighters, composed of Me 109's and Fw 190's, that were strategically based to protect industrial installations. The inferior capabilities of these fighters against the Mosquitoes made this a hopeless and uneconomical effort. 1.JD KTB

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2014, 08:38:20 AM »
Quote from: Scherf on January 12, 2014, 04:30:50 AM
FWIW, Capt. Taylor's Encounter Report is here:

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/359-taylor-5aug44.jpg

Damndest Fw-190 I ever did see, but I can't find any evidence of any incidents with RAF recce birds which would fit.

Neither 541 nor 542 were even in the area that day, and there's no mention of any incident with 4, 16, 400 Sqns etc in the Shores/Thomas series on 2nd TAF.

I swear I can see Spitty rads, and when it dives over the nose looks like it has a chin scoop, as opposed to a radial engine.

Maybe USAAF? Maybe I just don't know my 190s...

Probably a USAAF recce bird.  I'm seeing the same thing you are.  That is not a 190 :)
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Offline J.A.W.

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Re: Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2014, 03:45:11 PM »
Well, its a fact - the USAAF did award victory credits for 'friendly fire' shoot-downs..

There is the gun cam Mosquito downing footage which was credited as a Me 410, when it was so obviously not..

Mind you, even though the painted the tails of their recce Mozzies bright red, & then escorted them
with P-51's, they were still subject to 'friendly fire' attacks..
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Offline Shifty

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Re: Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2014, 07:44:23 PM »
Quote from: J.A.W. on January 19, 2014, 03:45:11 PM
Well, its a fact - the USAAF did award victory credits for 'friendly fire' shoot-downs..



 :P
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Offline J.A.W.

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Re: Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2014, 01:35:22 AM »
Dang! Ol'  'Curses' Curdes done nearly got hisself a whole set!

Bet he's figurin'...

 "Now where's them damn Limey's at!"  ..yeeeehaaaaww...

& I wonder if  'n  it was a damn yankee, or maybe.. even.. a red tail... he zapped..

Them dang carmmunist Russkies might wanna watch their red arses with him around, too,
since a red star'd go real nicely on that victory board..

Or was it mebbie a salt-crusted barnacle-scrapin' blue-bellied USN Hellcat he done deep sixed, yeah..

Yeah, them swabbies done dang-sure meet the criteria as enemy combatants, army-wise, anyhow..
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 03:42:24 AM by J.A.W. »
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Offline hotcoffe

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Re: Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2014, 05:54:08 AM »
target fixation... seems to be my Achilles heel, i can not stop doing it... I can remember how many times I went down knowing that i am gonna go down if i dont broke in about couple secs...

feels like its harder to stop smoking to stop target fixations....  :bhead
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Offline Devil 505

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Re: Target Fixation Caught on Guncam?
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2014, 01:20:01 PM »
Quote from: Scherf on January 11, 2014, 07:01:33 PM
Think so. What I can't ID is the a/c which first appears at 8:30. Some kind of 109 with rads open? Trick of the light?
I'm seeing what looks very much like a spit with a Griffin engine. Hence, the extra deep radiators.
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