Cornering speed question.

[hotcoffe]

Hi all last question i asked was about the torque and i get really good answers thnx everyone.

Here  I have an other question for you guys, whats the best way to determine the cornering speed of a fighter plane? Are there any docs. listing cornering speeds for planes available in AHII?


Note for those who don't know what is cornering speed:

Cornering Speed: The speed at which your aircraft has the highest turn rate
in the tightest turn radius. This is not your slowest airspeed, however. It is
true that the slower you go you will turn a tighter radius, however, it is your
turn rate that will determine how fast you bring your nose around. Rate
kills...

[FLS]

Corner speed is defined as the slowest speed that allows maximum load factor. In Aces High it's the slowest speed that lets you pull approximately 6Gs. We use the 6G limit because that's when we black out. Corner speed at max G is your fastest turn and your smallest turn radius. You cannot make a smaller radius turn flying slower unless you change the wing with flaps.


The first thing you need to know about corner speed is that you don't have the thrust to maintain it. As soon as you turn hard you increase drag and slow down. You'll have to fly a descending spiral to keep your speed up and you'll have to maintain partial blackout to get the best turn rate and radius. Corner speed without the maximum G load is a bigger slower turn.

Since turning at corner speed is not sustainable, you'll generally do less than a full turn, starting above corner speed and ending below it. If you need to keep turning you'll want to be looking for your best sustained turn speed and G load. You usually won't even consider corner speed because you'll usually be faster or slower but it's good to know what it is for those times when you need your best turn.

Corner speed varies with weight so you won't be looking for exact numbers. Fast WW2 aircraft tend to have a corner speed around 250 mph while a good turner like a Zeke could be 180 mph. It's easy to test for your current weight and altitude, just go faster than corner speed and make a level turn at partial blackout. Watch your speed drop and note your speed when the partial blackout starts to clear up. This is easier with the E6b open.

[hotcoffe]

Thnx FLs , good and detailed explanation, but I see that you are focused on sustained turn anyway thanks again.

Let me ask my first question in a different way, I am looking for way to determine the speed to complete a single 360 turn with  which will give the tightest possible turn radius in a plane.
Its ok to loose speed , (but is not ok loose alt or stall , or black out).  
In other words:
Corner speed also affects the minimum turn radius. The size of the turn radius of an aircraft depends on the speed it is traveling. A faster aircraft requires a larger circle to turn in than a slower one. However, the turn redius isn't only a function of speed. It also depends on the number of Gs a pilot pulls during the turn. An aircraft at a constant speed will make a relatively wide circle at 1 G but will turn in a very tight circle at 7 or 8 Gs. The corner velocity is the speed that gives the optimum balance between turn rate and turn radius.

for other dependencies we can assume that we will always use a slick plane with %50 fuel at start of the turn.

[TequilaChaser]

Thnx FLs , good and detailed explanation, but I see that you are focused on sustained turn anyway thanks again.

Let me ask my first question in a different way, I am looking for way to determine the speed to complete a single 360 turn with  which will give the tightest possible turn radius in a plane.
Its ok to loose speed , (but is not ok loose alt or stall , or black out). 
In other words:
Corner speed also affects the minimum turn radius. The size of the turn radius of an aircraft depends on the speed it is traveling. A faster aircraft requires a larger circle to turn in than a slower one. However, the turn redius isn't only a function of speed. It also depends on the number of Gs a pilot pulls during the turn. An aircraft at a constant speed will make a relatively wide circle at 1 G but will turn in a very tight circle at 7 or 8 Gs. The corner velocity is the speed that gives the optimum balance between turn rate and turn radius.

for other dependencies we can assume that we will always use a slick plane with %50 fuel at start of the turn.

I do not see where you seem to think FLS is focused specifically on sustained turnrate!

Getting Badboy's bootstrap calculator might help you in all areas of AH plane performance

Here is a note for you to keep in the back of your mind:
Do not rely on trying to utilize "corner speed" alot during dogfighting... If you do those who use their plane's combat flight envelope will consistently be sending you to the tower... Corner speed is fleeting...

Hope this helps

TC

[hotcoffe]

I do not see where you seem to think FLS is focused specifically on sustained turnrate!

Getting Badboy's bootstrap calculator might help you in all areas of AH plane performance

Here is a note for you to keep in the back of your mind:
Do not rely on trying to utilize "corner speed" alot during dogfighting... If you do those who use their plane's combat flight envelope will consistently be sending you to the tower... Corner speed is fleeting...

Hope this helps

TC

I think there are at least  2 important reasons why a pilot should know the cornering speed;
1st is you ll know how is your turn radius going to change depending on your speed. Lets say if you start a turn under ur corner speed, you ll know that you will be able to make tighter turn but a slower turn. Or if you start a turn above your corner speed you will know that you are going to complete the turn relatively fast but with higher turn radius. Or during sustained turn you will able to estimate what will be your turning radius and the time you ll need complete a 360 turn compered to your first turn lets say 2 turns later.
2nd is if you know the enemies cornering speed you can formulate a better strategy in a turn fight and might be able to plan 3-4 turns ahead (depending on assuming your are correctly observing(predicting) enemies speed).

[Changeup]

I think there are at least  2 important reasons why a pilot should know the cornering speed;
1st is you ll know how is your turn radius going to change depending on your speed. Lets say if you start a turn under ur corner speed, you ll know that you will be able to make tighter turn but a slower turn. Or if you start a turn above your corner speed you will know that you are going to complete the turn relatively fast but with higher turn radius. Or during sustained turn you will able to estimate what will be your turning radius and the time you ll need complete a 360 turn compered to your first turn lets say 2 turns later.
2nd is if you know the enemies cornering speed you can formulate a better strategy in a turn fight and might be able to plan 3-4 turns ahead (depending on assuming your are correctly observing(predicting) enemies speed).

You wont have time for any of this.  These calculations are OJT in this game that you end up learning while fighting.  There are exceptions but as a general rule...  You may enter the fight with the right speed but putting this particular speed indices to use is a tool of the BnZer when finishing off picklings.

[hotcoffe]

You wont have time for any of this.  These calculations are OJT in this game that you end up learning while fighting.  There are exceptions but as a general rule...  You may enter the fight with the right speed but putting this particular speed indices to use is a tool of the BnZer when finishing off picklings.

dont under estimate how fast human brain can calculate stuff once it gets used to a correct way of processing the relevant info...

[hitech]

It's easy to test for your current weight and altitude, just go faster than corner speed and make a level turn at partial blackout. Watch your speed drop and note your speed when the partial blackout starts to clear up. This is easier with the E6b open.

I believe you meant to include doing the test at the edge of stall.

HiTech

[Traveler]

Thnx FLs , good and detailed explanation, but I see that you are focused on sustained turn anyway thanks again.

Let me ask my first question in a different way, I am looking for way to determine the speed to complete a single 360 turn with  which will give the tightest possible turn radius in a plane.
Its ok to loose speed , (but is not ok loose alt or stall , or black out).  
In other words:
Corner speed also affects the minimum turn radius. The size of the turn radius of an aircraft depends on the speed it is traveling. A faster aircraft requires a larger circle to turn in than a slower one. However, the turn redius isn't only a function of speed. It also depends on the number of Gs a pilot pulls during the turn. An aircraft at a constant speed will make a relatively wide circle at 1 G but will turn in a very tight circle at 7 or 8 Gs. The corner velocity is the speed that gives the optimum balance between turn rate and turn radius.

for other dependencies we can assume that we will always use a slick plane with %50 fuel at start of the turn.

I think you need to do a few searches on the internet,  You may just discover the chart you are looking for.  Not sure that anyone in AH can turn in a tight circle at 7 or 8 Gs and your assumption of 50% fuel is just off base.  That would only be correct if they carried 50% fuel with drop tanks and only dropped the tanks as they started the turn. I think it's safer to assume that you will have no idea what the fuel state is of nme aircraft.  

[Changeup]

dont under estimate how fast human brain can calculate stuff once it gets used to a correct way of processing the relevant info...

That's mah point.  Don't underestimate how long it will take you to learn the variables of which you speak while jousting, while managing other cons trying to keel you, while moving out of the way of the ground, trees, wirbel patches, and HOtard HOing you in his LA7.  In other words, spend time with Morfiend and FLS...learning these are only effective if you can judge CORRECTLY, everything else going on around you...otherwise, its useless trivia that you can talk about to, well....no one except us because we like that kind of stuff.

I do wish you the best of luck on this noble endeavor

[TequilaChaser]

Hotcoffe,
I did not mean to sound like cornerspeed was not important... I may have read more into your
2 earlier posts too much...

Knowing your aircraft's cornerspeed as well as your opponent's is very important, and yes it can help you possibly see and or decide what course of action to take 3 to 4 moves ahead...

However, when a player gets fixated on flying in a predetermined pattern, you will eventually find yourself stuck in a rut... If you are a keen study and try to fight those that you might think or know they are more skilled than yourself... You will eventually learn to pick up on a person's flying habits...

I applaud those who go out and learn all the ah plane sets different attributes...

One thing about one of your earlier posts.... No-one should be pulling 7-8 g's... If they do, they will be giving up angles while they are blacked out... Also, the more you continue to pull past 6 G's the more prolonged the blackout becomes

Hope this helps

TC

[DaveBB]

Blacking out is the limiting factor in Aces High, which occurs at 6 G's if I recall correctly.  

[Changeup]

Hotcoffe,
I did not mean to sound like cornerspeed was not important... I may have read more into your
2 earlier posts too much...

Knowing your aircraft's cornerspeed as well as your opponent's is very important, and yes it can help you possibly see and or decide what course of action to take 3 to 4 moves ahead...

However, when a player gets fixated on flying in a predetermined pattern, you will eventually find yourself stuck in a rut... If you are a keen study and try to fight those that you might think or know they are more skilled than yourself... You will eventually learn to pick up on a person's flying habits...

I applaud those who go out and learn all the ah plane sets different attributes...

One thing about one of your earlier posts.... No-one should be pulling 7-8 g's... If they do, they will be giving up angles while they are blacked out... Also, the more you continue to pull past 6 G's the more prolonged the blackout becomes

Hope this helps

TC

I should have said this...but I got lost in smartazz mode...apologies.

[colmbo]

I believe you meant to include doing the test at the edge of stall.

HiTech

Just exactly where is that edge?  Is it with the horn bleating or should I be in buffet?  I'm guessing buffet is going to be to deep.

[BaldEagl]

Just exactly where is that edge?  Is it with the horn bleating or should I be in buffet?  I'm guessing buffet is going to be to deep.

Buffet is too deep.  Best sustained turn rate and radius in most AH planes seems to be just into the stall buzzer sounding.