Put Planes back in the GV game

[Tank-Ace]

Thanx for your support,


 It's not easy that's for sure ....besides the hidden laser beam flaks and the cupola commanders... still have to dodge all the pilots going for what they think will be an easy kill.....buffers rolling by trying to hit ya with their guns ....some times it's hard just to get to town or the spawn and the damn TREES.   ...this week I went over 2000 kills in the Ju87G2 since it was added in camp 150.


It would be so much better if WE the air pilots could up from the GV hangers in certain planes. You could bust the spawn camper hella lot more easy than dying 40 times till ya get a shot.  I bet the GV'ers themselves would use it quite a bit.

Thanx again,

 

I think the number of people shooting at aircraft from commander mode is MUCH lower than you think. I know I never used to use commander mode for ANY form of gunnery, save using the MG's to hose down troops.

Second, getting rid of the commander's aiming ring likely wouldn't affect their accuracy much, because as stated before, most aren't shooting from commander's view. And those that are just slaughtering aircraft with the main gun, as you claim, are obviously good enough they can do so without the aiming ring.

Add a delay between the command and when the turret moves, and it still won't solve your problem. Because, as previously stated, they aren't firing from commander mode, but are rather just pointing the gun at the target with commander mode, and firing from the gunsight.




I'll let you in on a little secret that isn't very secret; EVERY single aircraft death due to a tank's main gun is the direct and singular fault of the pilot of the aircraft. I guarantee that unless you take a way a tank's ability to fire, you will continue to die to tank shells, given your crap attack profile.



Bottom line, man the f**k up, and quit whining about how hard it is not to fly low and slow strait down a tank's gun barrel.

[ReVo]

I think the number of people shooting at aircraft from commander mode is MUCH lower than you think. I know I never used to use commander mode for ANY form of gunnery, save using the MG's to hose down troops.

Second, getting rid of the commander's aiming ring likely wouldn't affect their accuracy much, because as stated before, most aren't shooting from commander's view. And those that are just slaughtering aircraft with the main gun, as you claim, are obviously good enough they can do so without the aiming ring.

Add a delay between the command and when the turret moves, and it still won't solve your problem. Because, as previously stated, they aren't firing from commander mode, but are rather just pointing the gun at the target with commander mode, and firing from the gunsight.




I'll let you in on a little secret that isn't very secret; EVERY single aircraft death due to a tank's main gun is the direct and singular fault of the pilot of the aircraft. I guarantee that unless you take a way a tank's ability to fire, you will continue to die to tank shells, given your crap attack profile.



Bottom line, man the f**k up, and quit whining about how hard it is not to fly low and slow strait down a tank's gun barrel.

Could you please provide me with just one single instance of a real tank shooting down a real aircraft with it's main gun?

[Tank-Ace]

Could you please provide me with just one single instance of a real tank shooting down a real aircraft with it's main gun?

Its entirely irrelevant, though there is a documented case of a Howitzer shooting down a plane.


"This haunting photograph, which graced every Caribou briefing room, was a grim reminder that the Viet Cong and the NVA were not the only problem for pilots in Vietnam. This incident occurred in August of 1967 when the Caribou (tail number 62-4161) flew into the line of fire of a 155mm howitzer. This was early in the transition of the Caribou from the Army to the Air Force and highlighted the need for far better coordination amongst the services."



Now lets suppose that hypothetically, your argument of "It didn't happen in real lifez, make it stop  !!1" had some actual merit (and it does not, given that it contains two logical fallacies). How exactly do you propose we prevent this from happening, even if there was no historical precedent?


Should tank shells just not damage aircraft? That will never happen, since its gamey as hell, and frankly just downright moronic.

Give them crappier sights? No, their sights are historically accurate. Unless you want your aircraft nerfed for gameplay reasons, tanks won't be any less accurate.

Remove commander mode, or make it so you your turret doesn't follow you at all? No, that won't happen either. Saves HTC a lot of time on GV modeling, and its completely unhistorical, since the commander could give commands to the gunner.




Basically ReVo, you get shot down by a tank's main gun, you are an idiot. And are also an idiot if you think otherwise.

[bustr]

You get shot down because Hitech has made the feat possible and constantly repeatable. What you are doing is side stepping the issue and trying to move players along to: get over it and just adapt, I like this way.

It did not happen in real life with 10 years of ww2 across many country's with tanks like it does in our MA. If it did, tank shooter aircraft would not have been invented. And the ones that exist, do not allow the pilot the maneuverability or longer range gun to bring the guns to bare in our MA with the one constant all of them faced. They could not open fire until 400m or closer, and had to hold a steady straight path to hit the tank. Even the Hurri2D faced this problem.

Luck saw a few planes shot by a cannon or tank main gun. Less than 1% of the total shooting at airplanes for the whole 10 years of ww2.

We all accept a blind squirrel will find a few nuts before it starves to death. The MA is not populated by blind squirrels with bionic eyes.

[Halo46]

You get shot down because Hitech has made the feat possible and constantly repeatable. What you are doing is side stepping the issue and trying to move players along to: get over it and just adapt, I like this way.

It did not happen in real life with 10 years of ww2 across many country's with tanks like it does in our MA. If it did, tank shooter aircraft would not have been invented. And the ones that exist, do not allow the pilot the maneuverability or longer range gun to bring the guns to bare in our MA with the one constant all of them faced. They could not open fire until 400m or closer, and had to hold a steady straight path to hit the tank. Even the Hurri2D faced this problem.

Luck saw a few planes shot by a cannon or tank main gun. Less than 1% of the total shooting at airplanes for the whole 10 years of ww2.

We all accept a blind squirrel will find a few nuts before it starves to death. The MA is not populated by blind squirrels with bionic eyes.

While I don't have a horse in this purse fight your logic is as faulty as his. Buffs didn't dogfight, c-47s didn't go vertical to dump paras, there wasn't rampant bomb and bail or lankstukas and all the other gamey stuff done every second in the MAs. Problem is it is a game and will always be a game regardless of how much realism is tried to be forced in. If it can be done in a game it will be done in a game, period. 

[Tank-Ace]

You get shot down because Hitech has made the feat possible and constantly repeatable. What you are doing is side stepping the issue and trying to move players along to: get over it and just adapt, I like this way.

It did not happen in real life with 10 years of ww2 across many country's with tanks like it does in our MA. If it did, tank shooter aircraft would not have been invented. And the ones that exist, do not allow the pilot the maneuverability or longer range gun to bring the guns to bare in our MA with the one constant all of them faced. They could not open fire until 400m or closer, and had to hold a steady straight path to hit the tank. Even the Hurri2D faced this problem.

Luck saw a few planes shot by a cannon or tank main gun. Less than 1% of the total shooting at airplanes for the whole 10 years of ww2.

We all accept a blind squirrel will find a few nuts before it starves to death. The MA is not populated by blind squirrels with bionic eyes.

Once again, I asked you to come up with a workable solution. Many others and I have asked the same thing in many similar threads, and yet you imbeciles have consistently failed to deliver. In most cases, you don't even make the attempt.

And once again, exactly what happened in WWII is largely irrelevant. HTC has given use the tools, recreated accurately to the best of their ability, and we are free to use them as we wish.

[Karnak]

I'll let you in on a little secret that isn't very secret; EVERY single aircraft death due to a tank's main gun is the direct and singular fault of the pilot of the aircraft. I guarantee that unless you take a way a tank's ability to fire, you will continue to die to tank shells, given your crap attack profile.

This.

The kills I have made of aircraft by the main gun on a tank have all been from the gunsight, the aircraft first seen in the gunsight and the aircraft flying straight at me.

How am I supposed to feel bad about putting a 75mm AP round through an La-7 when all I can see in my sight when I pull the trigger is the engine and prop hub of an La-7?  I couldn't freakin' miss.


Ok, I did kill a C-47 that wasn't flying straight at me and was some distance away.  I had to fire five or so HE rounds before I got a hit, but it was using the gunsight against a slow, large airplane that wasn't all that far away.


Oh, I also killed Widewing's F4U-4 as it landed at a range of about 5k.  Fired two HE rounds, first one fell long and the second hit the ground right under where the trailing edge of his right wing met the fuselage.  That was an opportunity kill as I was actually there to shell the AA positions on the base.  He got a TBM-3 with a 2000lb bomb and came and got revenge.  

[Ack-Ack]

Could you please provide me with just one single instance of a real tank shooting down a real aircraft with it's main gun?

You'll have to do some searching in this forums but someone had posted an account from a German tank crew that used it's main gun to take down a Russian attack plane (think it was an IL2).  I also posted an account from a Soviet tank commander that was a battalion commander in command of Soviet Sherman tanks.  In his account, he briefly described how he and other Soviet Sherman tank commanders would place their Sherman tanks so they could use their main guns to fire at attacking German planes.  He never said he shot any planes down this way but he did state that they did use their main guns to fire at attacking planes.

ack-ack

[Megalodon]

You'll have to do some searching in this forums but someone had posted an account from a German tank crew that used it's main gun to take down a Russian attack plane (think it was an IL2).  I also posted an account from a Soviet tank commander that was a battalion commander in command of Soviet Sherman tanks.  In his account, he briefly described how he and other Soviet Sherman tank commanders would place their Sherman tanks so they could use their main guns to fire at attacking German planes.  He never said he shot any planes down this way but he did state that they did use their main guns to fire at attacking planes.

ack-ack

One incident does not qualify for anything in this game. One plane/tank built, one kill won't get a skin or a plane, one etc... is not a reason for a tank to shoot planes with ease everyday. Its another concession to the GV's just like the icon, capture the flag and awsd <XBOX>.

How bout some concession for the bored pilots in the off hours ...allow GV killers to fly from GV Bases 

[Tank-Ace]

One incident does not qualify for anything in this game. One plane/tank built, one kill won't get a skin or a plane, one etc... is not a reason for a tank to shoot planes with ease everyday. Its another concession to the GV's just like the icon, capture the flag and awsd <XBOX>.

How bout some concession for the bored pilots in the off hours ...allow GV killers to fly from GV Bases 

When did Spitfires fight P-51's, Typhoons, etc? When did 109's shoot down Ki-84's? The answer is never, even though it could have happened, had the two been fighting.

When did ground vehicles kill an aircraft? At least once, twice counting the howitzer, and was attempted numerous times.



Whats the difference?

[ReVo]

Its entirely irrelevant, though there is a documented case of a Howitzer shooting down a plane.

(Image removed from quote.)
"This haunting photograph, which graced every Caribou briefing room, was a grim reminder that the Viet Cong and the NVA were not the only problem for pilots in Vietnam. This incident occurred in August of 1967 when the Caribou (tail number 62-4161) flew into the line of fire of a 155mm howitzer. This was early in the transition of the Caribou from the Army to the Air Force and highlighted the need for far better coordination amongst the services."



Now lets suppose that hypothetically, your argument of "It didn't happen in real lifez, make it stop  !!1" had some actual merit (and it does not, given that it contains two logical fallacies). How exactly do you propose we prevent this from happening, even if there was no historical precedent?


Should tank shells just not damage aircraft? That will never happen, since its gamey as hell, and frankly just downright moronic.

Give them crappier sights? No, their sights are historically accurate. Unless you want your aircraft nerfed for gameplay reasons, tanks won't be any less accurate.

Remove commander mode, or make it so you your turret doesn't follow you at all? No, that won't happen either. Saves HTC a lot of time on GV modeling, and its completely unhistorical, since the commander could give commands to the gunner.




Basically ReVo, you get shot down by a tank's main gun, you are an idiot. And are also an idiot if you think otherwise.

You get really touchy when people ask questions.. jesus.

[Tank-Ace]

You get really touchy when people ask questions.. jesus.

Propose a solution.

[Ack-Ack]

One incident does not qualify for anything in this game. One plane/tank built, one kill won't get a skin or a plane, one etc... is not a reason for a tank to shoot planes with ease everyday. Its another concession to the GV's just like the icon, capture the flag and awsd <XBOX>.

How bout some concession for the bored pilots in the off hours ...allow GV killers to fly from GV Bases 

It was actually two cases that were posted in various threads on this subject in these forums, not one.  It does go to show that tanks did try and use their main guns to fire at attacking planes, and at least in one case (the German one), the tank crew scored a kill on an attacking plane that flew straight at them.  I'm sure if someone digs around long enough, they'll find more instances where tanks tried to shoot down attacking planes with their main guns.

Being able to shoot down a plane with a tank's main gun in game isn't a concession to GV'ers.  It's a result of players using crappy attack profiles and leave them open to being engaged by a tank's main gun.  If you get shot down by a tank's main gun, it's your fault for attacking in such a manner that left you vulnerable.  It's not a flaw of any sort of modeling with the game to make it easier on one playing segment, it's a flaw in your tactics.

Why don't you be honest for the reason of your wish?  You want to make it easier for you to kill tanks so you can fly straight at them without having to worry about being shot down. Next, you'll whine how it was unrealistic for machine guns on tanks to shoot down attacking planes and want to have that nerfed as well.  

ack-ack

[ReVo]

Propose a solution.

I already have. Remove aircraft icons for GV's.

[Tank-Ace]

I already have. Remove aircraft icons for GV's.

To what end? This will be a MUCH bigger impediment to flackers than to those shooting planes with their main cannons.


Once you make a pass and let them know you're after them, they'er still gonna shoot you in the face with their cannon when you fly strait down their gun barrel.



Perhaps if we got rid of GV icons entirely for everything but the Storch (and future recon planes) so that the flackers can still remain at least semi effective at protecting other GV's.