Lets Simplify This

[guncrasher]

Whatever you've been smoking please share.  You're fooling yourself if you think any of the P40's can match the ability of the La7 to "pick and vulch".  I'm not sure if the P40 can match the La7 in anything.  But in terms of what is needed to pick-n-vulch: Dive?  Firepower? Roll? Stability? Climb? Recovery and reset? Granted, the first attack pass may be similar in aircraft performance, but from there the La7 leaves the P40 in the dust.   

nope, the ability of the pilot to select the right moment is equal in every plane.  unless of course you are using something that only has 2 bb mg's then it's different.



semp

[kvuo75]

definitions:

all you need to pick is a friendly to keep the enemy occupied. that's what picking is. killing a guy who was occupied with someone else.

bnz'ing/bouncing/jumping is not picking.

vulching is not picking.


so, 4 p40's against 1 la7, the la7 is going to get picked more than likely.

[ink]

the skill needed to pick and vulch in an la7 is not really that different that picking in a p40.   



semp

I absolutely disagree.....

to a point you may be correct in the sense that ACM is the same in all planes....if you were eluding to that...the timing and actual ACM used will be different depending on the plane and situation...but a spit S is a split s no matter what you are flying...  

but no way in hell is someone in a P40 going to be able to vulch an enemy field...with uppers at the same success rate someone in a LA 7 is going to have......or fight the gang in a 1vs many....as easily as a spit or LA or KI84.

absolutely not.


again I say it does not matter what one flies but HOW one flies....

you can be a tard just as easy in a P40 then you can a LA7

definitions:

all you need to pick is a friendly to keep the enemy occupied. that's what picking is. killing a guy who was occupied with someone else.

bnz'ing/bouncing/jumping is not picking.

vulching is not picking.


so, 4 p40's against 1 la7, the la7 is going to get picked more than likely.

would you like to place a wager on that

1 LA7 is more than a match for 4 P40s.

of course depending on situation...is the LA7 stall fighting one already lo and slow on the deck and three come in....or does the LA7 see 4 cons ahead of him and have time to execute a plan?


there is a huge difference in those 2 particular planes...the LA7 is so far beyond the P40s capabilities

[BnZs]

Have fun with the arguments about what the actual ranking of each airplane should be.  It will be fun for endless debate/arguing/shouting/whining.

They're already roughly ranked via ENY, and we already argue about that.

[Lusche]

Oh, we certainly can argue much more about it, once ENY becomes important and we dweebs gravitate to the 'sweet spot' ENY 15-20 fighter

[BnZs]

Oh, we certainly can argue much more about it, once ENY becomes important and we dweebs gravitate to the 'sweet spot' ENY 15-20 fighter

Yeah, it could lead to all the highest-scoring pilots being 109-K dweebs.

Wait...     

[MachFly]

We already have a perk system where you get more perks if you fly a high ENY aircraft, then you can take a nice perked plane and get your rank up flying that.

Now...if you choose to fly an older/less capable aircraft it will be harder for you to get as many kills as everyone else and therefore harder to get a good rank (if that's what you care about). The fact is that you were the one who chose to fly a less capable aircraft, it's your problem, the ranking system doesn't need to be redesigned just because you like to call people in La-7s "gay."
Can you imagine an advertisement in the USAAF in 1945, "if you successfully escort the B-17s to Berlin in a P-40 rather than a P-51 we will make you a general tomorrow." Right.....

[kvuo75]

I absolutely disagree.....

to a point you may be correct in the sense that ACM is the same in all planes....if you were eluding to that...the timing and actual ACM used will be different depending on the plane and situation...but a spit S is a split s no matter what you are flying...  

but no way in hell is someone in a P40 going to be able to vulch an enemy field...with uppers at the same success rate someone in a LA 7 is going to have......or fight the gang in a 1vs many....as easily as a spit or LA or KI84.

absolutely not.


again I say it does not matter what one flies but HOW one flies....

you can be a tard just as easy in a P40 then you can a LA7


would you like to place a wager on that

1 LA7 is more than a match for 4 P40s.

of course depending on situation...is the LA7 stall fighting one already lo and slow on the deck and three come in....or does the LA7 see 4 cons ahead of him and have time to execute a plan?


there is a huge difference in those 2 particular planes...the LA7 is so far beyond the P40s capabilities

exactly but that's my point . using the word "pick" is not derogatory, IMO. some people think "vulch" is not derogatory.

some people take both as derogatory. some people redefine them.

[Vortex]

Really isn't complicated. ANY rank/score system that doesn't factor in the plane you fly as the baseline = a pretty fubar'd system.

AH ranking, therefore = fubar'd and meaningless

Nothing more to argue about, move along.

[Slade]

True anyone can get a kill in any plane but...

<<<<<sssSSSLLLAAAPPP!!!!>>>>>  Sorry, I had to wake you up.  jk

It is not easier to get a kill in a P-40e than an LA7\Spit16.  Maybe even more significant, you have a far greater chance of surviving more diverse negative situations in an LA7\Spit16 than a P-40e.  THAT is why the rank infatuated use LA7s\Spit16s and the like.

In the words of many a great wise man...DUH!

[Ack-Ack]

Whatever you've been smoking please share.  You're fooling yourself if you think any of the P40's can match the ability of the La7 to "pick and vulch".  I'm not sure if the P40 can match the La7 in anything.  But in terms of what is needed to pick-n-vulch: Dive?  Firepower? Roll? Stability? Climb? Recovery and reset? Granted, the first attack pass may be similar in aircraft performance, but from there the La7 leaves the P40 in the dust.   

semp is correct, the skill level needed to "pick and vulch" in a P-40 is the same as that of an La7, which is the same as any other plane.

ack-ack

[BaldEagl]

In the words of many a great wise man...[/b]!

Me?

[bustr]

Really isn't complicated. ANY rank/score system that doesn't factor in the plane you fly as the baseline = a pretty fubar'd system.

AH ranking, therefore = fubar'd and meaningless

Nothing more to argue about, move along.

Seems Hitech is placing the proof of burden on the pilot to prove how good he is in the MA. Not try to create a metric to some how magically determine your base ACM ability as a parallel path to achieving the No1 fighter rank.

Over the last decade all of these almost exactly the same requests have been for Hitech to come up with a way to rank the No1 fighter in the MA by a DA metric. Including not having to land your kills but, the understanding that somehow Hitech knows you are good enough to do that if you wanted to because the metric would show it.

I thought you guys had the DA and KOTH and the Dueling Ladder to prove to each other how big yours is.

[Vortex]

I thought you guys had the DA and KOTH and the Dueling Ladder to prove to each other how big yours is.

Just stating the obvious. What comes of it from there *shrug*, makes no differnce to me. Doesn't matter how bad, or good, HTC wants to make a ranking system, I won't be participating in it. Last time I did that was in the very early 90's in AW when I decided I wanted to win a camp....hehe, and it cost about $500 of GEnie time to do it. Once was enough, scores haven't interested me in the last 2+ decades since.    

But that doesn't negate the OP's original point. He's spot on.

[ink]

semp is correct, the skill level needed to "pick and vulch" in a P-40 is the same as that of an La7, which is the same as any other plane.

ack-ack

the actual "skill" to do it...I can see that.......but I think you need less skill to do those acts in the LA7 then the P40....

 you have to admit someone in the LA7 will do better IE have better results....live longer and escape if he wants to... then the same guy in a P40.