P38L and J Choosing the right fight at the right time?

[Randy1]

I would like to keep this thread centered on the P38 albeit any advice will be well received.

This tour I am back on the P38 J and L.  My ACM skills continue to improve but I am flat atrocious at picking the right fight and right time to match the P38 strong points.  My crummy K/D shows that. 

My SA awareness is improving but I keep getting caught in fights that are riddled with pickers reminding one of a fat cat in the middle of a pack of wild dogs.

What should I look for on the clipboard map that would keep me out of the wrong fight for a P38?  Something like look for a balance of red and green?  Stay in zones with radar up?

Do I avoid all furballs or do I go up the 51s 109s and 190s, and try pick them from the top?

Do I avoid fights with high concentrations of Las, Yaks, Spits and the like?

[Delirium]

This tour I am back on the P38 J and L.

I would recommend you fly one of the P38 types until you are very comfortable in it. The hydraulic boosted ailerons of the P38L changes the roll characteristics dramatically when compared to the G or J model and  the L can actually make rolling harder under certain circumstances. In addition, the G generally fights nose low compared to the friendlier nose high attitudes the J or the L favor.

My SA awareness is improving but I keep getting caught in fights that are riddled with pickers reminding one of a fat cat in the middle of a pack of wild dogs.

You are the proverbial "fat cat" as a P38 will garner the most attention after C47s and slow perk rides. Get used to reading the area and assume that every enemy aircraft will ignore others and attack you instead.

What should I look for on the clipboard map that would keep me out of the wrong fight for a P38?  Something like look for a balance of red and green?  Stay in zones with radar up?

Since the fight is governed by the players, it doesn't really matter what fight you enter. Each fight tends to be a little different and usually follows the lead from the squadron with the biggest presence. For example, if you're entering a fight and you see many members of a squadron in 190s, it is a safe bet the rest of the friendlies around them will be in faster planes as well. This isn't a stab at anyone but a singlular display of pack mentality.

Do I avoid all furballs or do I go up the 51s 109s and 190s, and try pick them from the top? Do I avoid fights with high concentrations of Las, Yaks, Spits and the like?

It is always a good idea to work your way down no matter what aircraft you're flying so you can't attacked from two sides on Y or vertical axis. If you do fight top performers like Yak3s and Spit8/16s, you need to fly perfectly and hope they make a mistake. Without a mistake made by the better performer, you will lose the fight in the P38. I'm NOT suggesting you run from those fights but know in fighting those aircraft you can push your skills to the limit (and hopefully improve them) depending on who you are fighting. For example, I'll enter a fight against a high zeke knowing I might be able to get inside of him as he dives with too much speed. However, if he is smart and throttles back (or decreases the angle of the dive) the fight will quickly work against my favor.

[Drano]

As usual Del is spot on!

Totally agree with Del's second point. You WILL be the most popular target in the area of any fight--so be aware.


It's possible to fight multiples in the 38 more easily if you're above them. You'll be able to outclimb or outzoom MOST other planes. Be mindful of the other planes' energy states and try to manage it for them . Always be lookinig out for wild card enemies coming in from odd directions or above. This will be the guy that likely ruins your good run. I avoid turning as much as I can in furballs as the more turny planes are gonna catch up to me if I do and I don't want to give them the satisfaction. I'll tend to at least TRY to stay on the periphery although that can be a very fluid kind of thing. Be mindful of the "cold side" of the fight. That way if things start to go bad you have a way out to either withdraw or reset the fight in relative safety. The trick is knowing when it's time to head that way. A couple of seconds and be the difference between life and death.

I like the challenge of fighting in the 38. It does everything fairly well but it's not the best at anything really. it IS a very popular target which makes it that much harder. You can "fight" any plane with it although your opponent might not consider it that way. Fight your fight---not the other guy's. That means no slow turny fights on the deck with Zeros and Hurris and those dang Brews. You're killing yourself if you do that. Keep your tactics sound vs a given plane and you can win consistently.

If you're a good shot it should be easier as it does have a great guns package with plenty of power. Unfortunately for me I can't hit the broad side of a barn with the broad side of--another barn. If I could have back just half the fights where I just flat out missed the guy bacause I can't shoot worth a dang I'e prolly graduate to half decent at this. In all the years I've been doing this you'd think I'd pick up the gunnery thing. <shrug>

I blame Bustr's pretty gunsights!

Good luck with it, Randy! Good to see you back in a proper airplane again!

[bozon]

The following advice hold pretty much for all twins.

1. One vs. many (defensive) will be VERY difficult for you. The 38 is a big target and even a two-weeker number guy will find its mark. Keep your SA up and know when to leave, or fly with wingmen.
2. Never ever allow a shot on your full plane. Learn to roll just before the other guy is about to fire even if it puts you in a less favorable position. The P-38 is paper-thin when viewed from the side, so break and if you cannot get completely out of the way, give them your side.
3. Once someone saddles up on you, it will be very difficult to wiggle your way out of that, like yaks, 109s or even P51s can. Do not let anyone get on your 6 - turn into them early, 1.5k with a minus sign is already too late. SA must be much higher than with other planes and the "threat range" much larger. As Delirium said, they are all looking at you.

Of all the twins, the P-38 has the best survival tools. It may fall short of the mossie deck speed, but your max speed goes linearly up with altitude. A few kft up, you are already in a better ranking speed-wise. Above 10k you are getting into your element and both your speed and climb start to get impressive. Above 20k you'll be alone, so come back down.

If you are in a learning phase, forget about smart flying and forget about your score this tour - go wild. Fly into the horde at low altitude and turn with every Brewster you see. That is the only way to learn how to handle a plane. After a tour of that, start to think about tactical flying.

[Randy1]

I would recommend you fly one of the P38 types until you are very comfortable in it.

Maybe a comprise here.  I will use the J for fighter work and the L for Jabo.  That would give 90% of the time in the J.

You are the proverbial "fat cat" as a P38 will garner the most attention after C47s and slow perk rides. Get used to reading the area and assume that every enemy aircraft will ignore others and attack you instead.

Reading the area I think is my biggest problem.

It is always a good idea to work your way down no matter what aircraft you're flying so you can't attacked from two sides on Y or vertical axis.

If you are going to area for the first time and suspect 10K fighting how high should one go into the area?

[Wiley]

If you are going to area for the first time and suspect 10K fighting how high should one go into the area?

No less than 15, preferably 20.  This applies for any and all aircraft.

Wiley.

[Tank-Ace]

No less than 15, preferably 20.  This applies for any and all aircraft.

Wiley.

I disagree. The optimal altitude for any fight of any kind is always 7k. Right in the middle of things  .

[Randy1]

As usual Del is spot on!

Totally agree with Del's second point. You WILL be the most popular target in the area of any fight--so be aware.


It's possible to fight multiples in the 38 more easily if you're above them. You'll be able to outclimb or outzoom MOST other planes. Be mindful of the other planes' energy states and try to manage it for them . Always be lookinig out for wild card enemies coming in from odd directions or above. This will be the guy that likely ruins your good run. I avoid turning as much as I can in furballs as the more turny planes are gonna catch up to me if I do and I don't want to give them the satisfaction. I'll tend to at least TRY to stay on the periphery although that can be a very fluid kind of thing. Be mindful of the "cold side" of the fight. That way if things start to go bad you have a way out to either withdraw or reset the fight in relative safety. The trick is knowing when it's time to head that way. A couple of seconds and be the difference between life and death.

I like the challenge of fighting in the 38. It does everything fairly well but it's not the best at anything really. it IS a very popular target which makes it that much harder. You can "fight" any plane with it although your opponent might not consider it that way. Fight your fight---not the other guy's. That means no slow turny fights on the deck with Zeros and Hurris and those dang Brews. You're killing yourself if you do that. Keep your tactics sound vs a given plane and you can win consistently.

If you're a good shot it should be easier as it does have a great guns package with plenty of power. Unfortunately for me I can't hit the broad side of a barn with the broad side of--another barn. If I could have back just half the fights where I just flat out missed the guy bacause I can't shoot worth a dang I'e prolly graduate to half decent at this. In all the years I've been doing this you'd think I'd pick up the gunnery thing. <shrug>

I blame Bustr's pretty gunsights!

Good luck with it, Randy! Good to see you back in a proper airplane again!

Drano, I can greatly increase my K/D and Kills with the likes a of a P47M, P51 or a Ki but the challenge to do well in the P38 keeps calling me back.  I agree, the P38 does a lot of things good but only excels in being a large target.

The "Cold Side".  A good point.  I often loose my way out.  Gunnery,  I wish I had the shot making skills of Del and Lusche

[Arbiter]

No less than 15, preferably 20.  This applies for any and all aircraft.

Wiley.

Careful.  Some on here consider such statements sin incarnate .  You are at risk of being excommunicated and ridiculed by the real dogfighters.  

I disagree. The optimal altitude for any fight of any kind is always 7k. Right in the middle of things  .

Still too high in the eyes some. Best stick to under 500 ft.  Oh yeah, be sure to dive into fights at nearly stall speeds against at least five as well. Don't worry about landing or even ditching.  That's for sissies.  



In short:  It's always best to run this stuff past some of the real dogfighters for approval before posting, if only in an attempt to save some of the wasted electrons from the inevitable arguments that will soon erupt.  

 

[BluBerry]

No less than 15, preferably 20.  This applies for any and all aircraft.

Wiley.

no wayyyy.


If there is a fight at 10k, then come in at 10k with speed and once your in Icon Range make your choice if you want to zoom climb to have the high cap or zip through the fight.

If there is a fight at 10k and you arrive at 15k, the bandits you kill will return at 20k. Once you die you will return at 25k. That cycle tends to suck because your left with one side hovering over an enemy base at 25k and no body re-upping to fight even from a further base, because it takes to damn long to get up there.

I go everywhere in the MA at 8-12k, if I am flying to a base that friendlies are already at I will stay at 8, if I'm first in with a dar bar and no visual contact 12k.

[BluBerry]

Careful.  Some on here consider such statements sin incarnate .  You are at risk of being excommunicated and ridiculed by the real dogfighters.  

 

or if you care to be less dramatic, the people who will ridicule this are those like myself who realize that AH2 is heavy on commute time and we don't all share the love of sitting in autopilot for 15+ each way every sortie.

[Arbiter]

no wayyyy.


If there is a fight at 10k, then come in at 10k with speed and once your in Icon Range make your choice if you want to zoom climb to have the high cap or zip through the fight.

If there is a fight at 10k and you arrive at 15k, the bandits you kill will return at 20k. Once you die you will return at 25k. That cycle tends to suck because your left with one side hovering over an enemy base at 25k and no body re-upping to fight even from a further base, because it takes to damn long to get up there.

I go everywhere in the MA at 8-12k, if I am flying to a base that friendlies are already at I will stay at 8, if I'm first in with a dar bar and no visual contact 12k.

 

[Arbiter]

or if you care to be less dramatic, the people who will ridicule this are those like myself who realize that AH2 is heavy on commute time and we don't all share the love of sitting in autopilot for 15+ each way every sortie.

Just a bit of tongue-in-cheek humor and parody, Bluberry.   Not meant to be serious. 

[BluBerry]

Just a bit of tongue-in-cheek humor and parody, Bluberry.   Not meant to be serious. 

Sorry bro, hard to tell sometimes when its left up to our individual interpretation of things. 

[Wiley]

Gunnery,  I wish I had the shot making skills of Del and Lusche

That is the single best and worst thing about the 38.  The way the guns and the DM works in this game, for the most part any solid hit from a 38 destroys what it was pointed at.  Unfortunately you've got to aim that tiny stream of bullets, you don't get the advantage of the X you get with wing mounted guns.

But yeah, if you can hit with it, it's awesome.

Careful.  Some on here consider such statements sin incarnate .  You are at risk of being excommunicated and ridiculed by the real dogfighters.  

Meh.  I'm an unrepentant altmonkey.  The difference between me and many altmonkeys you see these days is, if I have ammo and fuel I'm not going to run from the guy that's above me.

In short:  It's always best to run this stuff past some of the real dogfighters for approval before posting, if only in an attempt to save some of the wasted electrons from the inevitable arguments that will soon erupt.  

 

Bah.  They play down in the mud, I come in high looking for the red guy that's trying to feed off them.  The thing that makes me happiest in the game is nailing a guy that's trying to pick a friendly who's turnfighting on the deck with another plane and having the guy I just shot down whine about being picked.

If there is a fight at 10k, then come in at 10k with speed and once your in Icon Range make your choice if you want to zoom climb to have the high cap or zip through the fight.

That's often option 2.  Depends how impatient I get.

If there is a fight at 10k and you arrive at 15k, the bandits you kill will return at 20k. Once you die you will return at 25k. That cycle tends to suck because your left with one side hovering over an enemy base at 25k and no body re-upping to fight even from a further base, because it takes to damn long to get up there.

I go everywhere in the MA at 8-12k, if I am flying to a base that friendlies are already at I will stay at 8, if I'm first in with a dar bar and no visual contact 12k.

I plan for 15, depending on how things happen it can be anywhere from 5 to 20.  I'm a big believer in ABC.  Always Be Climbing.  If it takes me a while to find the enemy being shown by the bardar, I tend to be at the higher end of things.

Wiley.