Author Topic: Just sharing a few Fighter Pilot tips  (Read 1675 times)

Offline Latrobe

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Just sharing a few Fighter Pilot tips
« on: February 10, 2014, 12:51:19 AM »
I just thought I'd share a few key and very important fighter pilot tips. I see a LOT of people making mistakes that can usually be traced back to one of these three tips. So, here are three VERY important tips that I think are VERY much overlooked in a dogfight.

Lift Vector

Probably one of the leading causes of deaths in the MA is placing your lift vector in the wrong location. A lot of people will just turn their plane into their opponent trying to line up a shot. However if you are not behind your opponents 3-9 line then you are doing it wrong and you are going to die. First, what is the 3-9 Line? You might know that there are positions off your plane that correspond to that on a clock. I've marked 4 of them in the picture below: 12 o'clock, 3 o'clock, 6 o'clock, and 9 o'clock. Just like 12 o'clock on a clock is at the "top" of a clock, 12 o'clock for your plane is to your "front". Just like 6 o'clock on a clock is at the "bottom", 6 o'clock for your plane is "behind" you. That's why when people call out "Bandits, 10 o'clock high!" on vox you look off the front left side of your plane, the 10 o'clock position, and high for the bandits. The 3-9 Line is quite literally the line that runs across your wings from the 3 o'clock position to 9 o'clock. In the simplest terms, everything behind this line is on your 6, everything in front of this line in on your 12.



Now what is Lift vector? It's the direction of your lift really. For an airplane that is up! Next time you're sitting in the cockpit hold down the 5 key on your keypad to look straight up. That is your lift vector you are looking at! Now comes the tricky part, where to put your lift vector. When you get into a turning fight and you have not gotten yourself behind your opponents 3-9 line then you want to position your lift vector behind their tail. In a rolling scissors fight you want to be pointing your gunsight behind the tail of your opponent. You want to fly to his SIX before you start shooting. There is the whole "Line up a crossing snap shot and kill him" thing that you can do too, but if you miss that shot then you put yourself into a very vulnerable position and will most likely overshoot if you don't know what you're doing. SO, it's always safer to get onto your opponents 6 before you start lining up for a shot. This way even if you miss you won't be at immediate risk of overshooting. Here's a few pictures of how lift vector will win you a rolling scissors fight.

In this first shot we can see really neither one of us is behind the others 3-9 line as we go through our rolling scissors. See how I am positioning my lift vector behind my opponent? My nose is pointing towards the airspace behind him instead of at or in front of him. I want to get behind his 3-9 line before I start trying for a shot.


From his perspective we can see his lift vector is out in front of my 3-9 line. His nose is pointed in front of me. He is trying to turn into me for a shot. Not positioning his lift vector behind my 3-9 line while I AM positioning MY lift vector behind his 3-9 line means he has more forward momentum than me and he is going to overshoot, allowing me behind his 3-9 line.


And this is the eventual outcome. I am now clearly behind his 3-9 line and am ready to start lining up my shot.



One other example from the merge this time. On the merge me and the other Spit go into the vertical. We both position our lift vectors behind the others 3-9 line trying to gain a positional advantage.


At the top of the loop neither one of us gains the other 6, however I could see I had a slight altitude advantage going into the merge and now we're pretty much co-alt. This tells me I have a small E advantage (This was a duel. Same plane, same alt merge, means roughly same speed as well) so I'm going to pull another climbing maneuver back into him.


Again I position my lift vector behind his 3-9 line trying to gain his 6. As I suspected he does not have the E to pull into another climb and I get above him.


Now I gain a positional advantage behind his 3-9 line and I start pointing my nose towards him to try and line up a shot.


Remember when you're turning into your opponent that you want to get your lift vector behind his 3-9 line. This increases the closure rate, creates sharp angles for them to work with, and will eventually force the overshoot and position you behind their 3-9 line.



The Turn
This little tip can go by unnoticed as it is a very small tip, and very simple, yet it's one that can help you with Energy Management. Always be climbing or diving, even if just a little bit, when making a turn. Flat Turns are the most inefficient use of Energy. A flat turn will change the direction you're flying, thereby creating sharp angles, increasing closure rate, and help force the overshoot, but it burns up your E. It also only creates the horizontal problem for your attacker. A climbing turn will do everything a flat turn does, but it also stores energy in the altitude you gain through the turn. You can then convert this altitude back into energy if you need to. A diving turn will also do everything a flat turn does, but it will also build up energy at the expense of altitude. You can then convert that energy back into altitude if you need to. Something that both a climbing or diving turn do that a flat turn does not is create a vertical problem for your attacker. Now instead of just pulling lead into your turn for a shot you will either dive below or climb above their nose, forcing them to line up a shot vertically as well as horizontally.

It's a very simple concept, but it can be the deciding factor in a fight. Next time you run out of E in a fight and get shot down think back to try and remember if you pulled any flat turns. A climbing or diving turn instead of a flat turn in that 1 moment could have been that last bit of energy you needed to win the fight.


Offline Latrobe

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Re: Just sharing a few Fighter Pilot tips
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2014, 12:52:37 AM »
Boelcke's Rule 2 and 6
Yes, the Dicta Boelcke. This may be a video game but these rules still work!! This is by far the number one cause of death in the MA. About 98% of my kills are from people making this one mistake. Boelcke's rule 2 states "Always continue with an attack you have begun." and rule 6 states "If your oppoent dives on you, do not try to get around his attack, but fly to meet it." What these both essentially mean are: don't try to run away. Rule 2 says not to break off from your attack. All this does is expose your 6 to your opponent. Rule 6 says do not try to dive and run away from your attacker, as this also exposes our 6 and will get you killed. Instead turn into his attack, don't show him your 6, and try to force your attacker onto the defensive or at least keep him off your 6. The last place you ever want an enemy fighter is on your 6. I can not tell you how many times I have seen people throw away all of their advantages and try to dive for the deck to run away only to be chased down and killed. All you are doing is handing your opponent your 6 and giving him every advantage... that is, in fact, the worst case scenerio for a fighter pilot.

This, of course, is one of the harder tips to master as you can follow Boelcke's rules but you will still die if you don't have good ACM. However, you will never learn these essential ACM's if you don't fight and practice and learn! You will learn nothing from trying to out run your opponent other than how to die tired. I can say from experience that you can learn FAAAAAAAR more from dying in a 5 second fight than running away for 5 minutes to survive. Some things that can help you improve? Let's go back to Boelcke's rule 2: Always continue with an attack you have begun. The key words: that YOU have begun. If you are in the position where YOU get to choose when to start the fight, then start it from the most advantageous position you can get. Is there a Spitfire roughly 2K below your 12 o'clock? Don't dive straight in for him. This is a bad attack approach as he can easily nose up into you for a head on shot, or slightly nose down and easily make you miss. Instead, stay high, position yourself behind him, and make a diving attack onto his 6. If you miss your shot, remember Boelcke's Rule 2! Do not try to run away! Use your speed, climb up above him, and re-position for another attack. Remember Boelcke's Rule 6? "Do not try to get around their attack, but fly to meet it" ?? If you don't get to choose when the fight starts, do NOT try to dive away and run away. This only throws away all of your advantages that you may have had, gives your attacker your 6, and once you're on the deck you have just lost about half of your ACM options. Split-S? Diving turns? Or any maneuver involving going nose down? Say goodbye to those because that's the ground below you, not sky. When your opponent makes an attack run on you, turn into it, be aggressive, try and force him to make a mistake and turn the tables on him! Boelcke's rule doesn't mean to turn and go head on with them as flying into your opponents guns is a very unhealthy way to fly, but what it means is to get him in front of your 3-9 line, not behind it. You can avoid the HO pass very easily as it is the easiest shot to avoid in all of aerial combat. Use your advantages and aircrafts strengths! Any fight can be won! No matter the plane matchup, as long as you use your planes strengths and your advantages you can reverse your opponent and go on the offensive!


I hope this was helpful. Now go kill all those red planes!  :aok

Offline morfiend

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Re: Just sharing a few Fighter Pilot tips
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2014, 11:02:58 AM »
 Great stuff Bathrobe! :aok   Bucking for a trainers spot I see!!!! :devil


  My only comment/complaint is the text in your pictures,it's abit small for my old eyes to read,they colour is fine but next time size the font up somewhat!  if it looks too big to you,then it's about perfect for most us old guys!!!! :noid




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Offline hotcoffe

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Re: Just sharing a few Fighter Pilot tips
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2014, 11:09:29 AM »
hey latrobe why don't you write book or make DVD? I ll be gald to buy one if it does not end up very expensive
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Just sharing a few Fighter Pilot tips
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2014, 11:15:27 AM »
Great stuff, Latrobe.  I've been flying a while, but only recently had formalized the lift vector stuff in my head.

Quote
Boelcke's rule doesn't mean to turn and go head on with them as flying into your opponents guns is a very unhealthy way to fly, but what it means is to get him in front of your 3-9 line, not behind it.

QFMFT.  Just last night there was somebody quoting exactly that as the reason he HOed a guy.

Wiley.
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Offline BluBerry

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Re: Just sharing a few Fighter Pilot tips
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2014, 11:29:38 AM »
Great stuff Bathrobe! :aok   Bucking for a trainers spot I see!!!! :devil


  My only comment/complaint is the text in your pictures,it's abit small for my old eyes to read,they colour is fine but next time size the font up somewhat!  if it looks too big to you,then it's about perfect for most us old guys!!!! :noid




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your browser can zoom in…

Offline Randy1

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Re: Just sharing a few Fighter Pilot tips
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2014, 11:48:54 AM »
That was sure a good read. 

Now a question of priority in decision making during the fight.  You have reached a point in the fight where you have to decide between burning off high amounts of E in an ACM to get your like vector behind the 3-9 line of the attacker or momentarily extend for a reset of the fight.  Is it better to blow the E for proper vector placement or is preserving E the priority?

Offline morfiend

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Re: Just sharing a few Fighter Pilot tips
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2014, 11:52:26 AM »
your browser can zoom in…


   :rofl :rofl :rofl

  I have it set to 150% now and my text size is custom!   enjoy your good vission while it last,as you age you will find you will hold reading material further and further back!  Eventualy you run out of arm length and you will be forced to see the eye doctor to get reading glasses!

   I bypassed all that and had implants installed,problem with them if the limited focal length,anything inside of about 24 inches is rather blurry. I was forced to quit flying around 02 or so until 04 as I was legally blind.


    There was only 1 picture I had difficulty reading the text,I was just yanking Latrobe's chain,him and I are old friends!


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Offline BluBerry

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Re: Just sharing a few Fighter Pilot tips
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2014, 11:55:31 AM »
I was just yanking Latrobe



I wasn't meaning it in a rude way. Trobe is friends with everyone, but you may be the only one yanking him.  :neener:

Offline morfiend

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Re: Just sharing a few Fighter Pilot tips
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2014, 12:13:01 PM »
 :rofl :rofl

   :furious :furious :furious  Nice edit!





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Offline Vudu15

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Re: Just sharing a few Fighter Pilot tips
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2014, 01:10:29 PM »
 :rock
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Offline FLS

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Re: Just sharing a few Fighter Pilot tips
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2014, 01:12:03 PM »
That was sure a good read. 

Now a question of priority in decision making during the fight.  You have reached a point in the fight where you have to decide between burning off high amounts of E in an ACM to get your lift vector behind the 3-9 line of the attacker or momentarily extend for a reset of the fight.  Is it better to blow the E for proper vector placement or is preserving E the priority?

Latrobe explains that lift vector is up, relative to the seated pilot, but his arrows seem to show it as the flight path. Maybe that's confusing you.

Lift vector is simply the direction of the lift generated by your aircraft.You move your lift vector by rolling so changing it doesn't cost much.
Putting you nose or lift vector behind the bandit's 3/9 line is lag pursuit. Generally you'll slow down more trying for lead pursuit than you will for lag pursuit. Flying lag pursuit is recommended for maintaining speed. You won't have to choose since you can do both together.



Offline Latrobe

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Re: Just sharing a few Fighter Pilot tips
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2014, 01:23:09 PM »
That was sure a good read.  

Now a question of priority in decision making during the fight.  You have reached a point in the fight where you have to decide between burning off high amounts of E in an ACM to get your like vector behind the 3-9 line of the attacker or momentarily extend for a reset of the fight.  Is it better to blow the E for proper vector placement or is preserving E the priority?

Kind of depends on the current situation and plane matchup. If you're flying a P-51 against a Zeke I would not burn the E to get the position you want since you probably won't get it. A Zeke can out maneuver you at mid-low speeds, so burning off the E would be a bad idea. I'd use that E to extend and climb, re-position from a more advantageous position and re-engage. Or if you have altitude, what I like to do against zekes is go into a dive. At around 350mph zekes tend to get VERY sluggish and start putting themselves at risk of breaking apart. Once I see them get to that point then I can use my superior high speed handling and out maneuver a zeke! Just like I stated before, ANY fight is winnable if you just use the advantages you have and the strengths of your aircraft.  :D

FLS probably has a point. The line I drew was just to show how far behind their 6 I was putting my lift vector. I thought a simple dot showing where my lift vector was wouldn't quite get the visualization acrossed. Remember the lift vector is your lift not a flightpath (unless planes can hover straight up like a helicopter  :lol )


Just to clear up any confusing with lift vectors. The orange dot in the middle of my plane is my lift vector. The line extending off my tail is just to help you see where it is lined up with my opponent. Imagine the orange dot like an arrow coming straight up from my cockpit like in the diagram in the corner. In this first shot my lift vector is pointed AT my opponent.


How do I fix this? I stop rolling into him and let his forward momentum carry him in front of my lift vector!


Now my lift vector is behind him and I used NO energy to correct this. In fact it would have cost me MORE energy to KEEP my lift vector on him!  :aok
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 01:53:50 PM by Latrobe »

Offline wpeters

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Re: Just sharing a few Fighter Pilot tips
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2014, 03:02:03 PM »
Now I have a question.  How do you Sucessfully break into a rolling scissors without exsposing you six to long to get shot to peaces. That is were I have the Hardest time
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Offline Randy1

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Re: Just sharing a few Fighter Pilot tips
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2014, 03:27:48 PM »
FLS and Latrobe, yes I understood the origination of the lift vector but i do see how those unfamiliar with vectors could be confused.  That worked out.

Latrobe answered my question very well.  Thank you for the post and the reply.