Perked Ordinance idea twist and Plane Loadout Settings

[Tinkles]

I was thinking of how I can grab a perk plane, get any type of loadout I want, and the plane "perk" cost is still the same.  I was thinking having a base cost for all perk planes, but have the perk price increase or decrease a few points based on what you choose to get in the hangar/loadout area.

Base Cost for Ordinance
             100lbs - free
             250lbs - free
             500lbs - 1 perk each
             1000lbs - 2-3 perks each
             Rockets - Varying based on the type of rocket.  I was thinking 2 perks or more, but still varies based on the type of rocket.

The above would apply to all non-perked fighters. Costs for bombers would be different because they use bombs in a different manner.
As for perked planes I think 1.5 to 2x the cost of ordinance is fair in addition to the base perk cost. Example is Below using the F4U-1C.

*Note: It's been 2 months since I've been able to play, so bear with me perk values may not be accurate.

Example: F4U-1C  Base perk cost (100% fuel no ordinance) 25 perks.
             F4U-1C with 250 lbers  25 perks
             F4U-1C with 500 lbers  28-30 perks
             F4U-1C with 1000 lbers 35-40 perks
             F4U-1C drop tank cost would depend on size of the tank(s) (2+ perks per drop tank based on size)
             (Rockets would be an extra 3-5 perks in any of these loadouts)


I didn't list 250lbers as "perked" because I think if we have a perked ordinance system that 100lb and 250 lb bombs shouldn't be perked.
Again all perk planes would have a base cost, and what the player chooses in the loadout/hangar bay changes the take-off cost of that plane.
I think that you should also be awarded the highest amount of perks by getting kills with 100lb bombs than with 250s or 500s etc. 

I think gun packages should also be a factor, but not for perk cost, but perks gained.
For example: F4F's Have the 4 50 cals and 6 50 cal  loadouts.  If you choose the 6 50 cals you earn slightly less perks per kill than if you chose the 4 50 cal loadout. 

(Just an idea, I understand some planes only have one gun package so for those planes this example wouldn't apply, it would stay how it was originally).


As for bombers they need their own system for perk cost. Like the Lancaster with 18x500s and 1 4000lber.  Since you can't mix and match for bombers, it would be difficult to put a set perk price on loadouts there. My reason for that is because Bombers have to have some type of ordinance to be useful (some are excluded from this definition like the obvious B25).  I think some loadouts should be free and some should have a perk cost. But the cost should be different than that of the fighters. (For example 1000lbers above being 2-3 perks each (base cost x2 if on perk plane), would be medium-higher price for the 'average' player for Lancaster with the 14x 1000lber loadout (even higher with formations). 

28 perks per lanc, 84 perks total for a formation of 3 lancasters with that 14x1000lber loadout. And the B29 would be even higher. 1 perk per 500 lb bomb (if you got the 40 500lb bomb loadout) = 40 extra perks or 120 if you have a formation on the hundreds more invested in the bombers themselves.

That is why the bombers would need their own perked ordinance system separate in prices and values from the fighter system. But I think it's something that has potential of being implemented.   




Mix and Match - Explained

Lets say a B17 holds 8000 lb of ordinance. But instead of getting all 500lbers you want to mix and match.

So you can get any combination of ordinance you want as long as it is under the number 8000.

So 3 1000s, 4 500s, 8 250s and 10 100 lb bombs.

So you could customize your loadout based on what you are doing or what you want to accomplish.

I understand this most likely wasn't a 'historic loadout', but it is just a thought that I wanted to share.


Just some personal thoughts.  I know some of the player base wants perked ordinance, this would be the way I would implement it.

<<S>>

Tinkles

[Karnak]

1) Ordnance should never be perked for bombers.  Delivering ordnance is their one reason to exist.
2) Historical loadouts should be the only loadouts, no mixing and matching.
3) Rockets for fighter-bombers should be free.
4) As pointed out in the P-38 2k bomb thread, 500lbs and below should be free or it becomes too limiting.

[HawkerMKII]

I was thinking of how I can grab a perk plane, get any type of loadout I want, and the plane "perk" cost is still the same.  I was thinking having a base cost for all perk planes, but have the perk price increase or decrease a few points based on what you choose to get in the hangar/loadout area.

Base Cost for Ordinance
             100lbs - freeNO
             250lbs - freeNO
             500lbs - 1 perk eachNO
             1000lbs - 2-3 perks eachNO
             Rockets - Varying based on the type of rocket.  I was thinking 2 perks or more, but still varies based on the type of rocket.NO

The above would apply to all non-perked fighters. Costs for bombers would be different because they use bombs in a different manner.
As for perked planes I think 1.5 to 2x the cost of ordinance is fair in addition to the base perk cost. Example is Below using the F4U-1C.

*Note: It's been 2 months since I've been able to play, so bear with me perk values may not be accurate.

Example: F4U-1C  Base perk cost (100% fuel no ordinance) 25 perks.
             F4U-1C with 250 lbers  25 perks
             F4U-1C with 500 lbers  28-30 perks
             F4U-1C with 1000 lbers 35-40 perks
             F4U-1C drop tank cost would depend on size of the tank(s) (2+ perks per drop tank based on size)
             (Rockets would be an extra 3-5 perks in any of these loadouts)


I didn't list 250lbers as "perked" because I think if we have a perked ordinance system that 100lb and 250 lb bombs shouldn't be perked.
Again all perk planes would have a base cost, and what the player chooses in the loadout/hangar bay changes the take-off cost of that plane.
I think that you should also be awarded the highest amount of perks by getting kills with 100lb bombs than with 250s or 500s etc. 

I think gun packages should also be a factor, but not for perk cost, but perks gained.
For example: F4F's Have the 4 50 cals and 6 50 cal  loadouts.  If you choose the 6 50 cals you earn slightly less perks per kill than if you chose the 4 50 cal loadout. 

(Just an idea, I understand some planes only have one gun package so for those planes this example wouldn't apply, it would stay how it was originally).


As for bombers they need their own system for perk cost. Like the Lancaster with 18x500s and 1 4000lber.  Since you can't mix and match for bombers, it would be difficult to put a set perk price on loadouts there. My reason for that is because Bombers have to have some type of ordinance to be useful (some are excluded from this definition like the obvious B25).  I think some loadouts should be free and some should have a perk cost. But the cost should be different than that of the fighters. (For example 1000lbers above being 2-3 perks each (base cost x2 if on perk plane), would be medium-higher price for the 'average' player for Lancaster with the 14x 1000lber loadout (even higher with formations). 

28 perks per lanc, 84 perks total for a formation of 3 lancasters with that 14x1000lber loadout. And the B29 would be even higher. 1 perk per 500 lb bomb (if you got the 40 500lb bomb loadout) = 40 extra perks or 120 if you have a formation on the hundreds more invested in the bombers themselves.

That is why the bombers would need their own perked ordinance system separate in prices and values from the fighter system. But I think it's something that has potential of being implemented.   




Mix and Match - Explained

Lets say a B17 holds 8000 lb of ordinance. But instead of getting all 500lbers you want to mix and match.

So you can get any combination of ordinance you want as long as it is under the number 8000.

So 3 1000s, 4 500s, 8 250s and 10 100 lb bombs.

So you could customize your loadout based on what you are doing or what you want to accomplish.

I understand this most likely wasn't a 'historic loadout', but it is just a thought that I wanted to share.


Just some personal thoughts.  I know some of the player base wants perked ordinance, this would be the way I would implement it.

<<S>>

Tinkles

[Tank-Ace]

Just a giant steaming pile of nope. And here's why  !


The only US fighters that do not carry a 250lb or smaller bomb are the: P-39D, P-39Q, P-40C, P-40E, P-40F, P-40N, P-47D-11, and the P-47M

All variants of the F4U can carry a 250lb lb bomb, as can the F6F, all P-38's, P-51's, and all P-47's save the M and D-11.


List of all fighters in the game that carry 250lb or smaller bombs, and total ordnance capacity using those bombs:

A6M-2: 220lbs
A6M-5b: 220lbs
110G-2: 440lbs
190F-8: 440lbs
F4F-4: 200lbs
FM2: 200lbs
F4U-1: 250lbs
F4U-1A: 250lbs
F4U-1C: 500lbs
F4U-1D: 500lbs
F4U-4: 500lbs
La-5FN: 440lbs
La-7: 440lbs
Mosquito VI: 1000lbs
P-38G: 500lbs
P-38J: 500lbs
P-38L: 500lbs
P-47D-25: 500lbs
P-47D-40: 500lbs
P-47N: 500lbs
P-51B: 500lbs
P-51D: 500lbs
Spitfire XVI: 500lbs
Typhoon: 500lbs


USA: 15 planes total
UK: 3 planes
Germany: 2 planes
Japan: 2 planes
Russia: 2 planes


Basically, using bombs alone, the Mossie is the only fighter capable of carrying 1000lbs.

And I guarantee I can pretty accurately rank which fighters will be used most often:

P-51D
P-38L
F4U-1D
P-47D-40
Mosquito VI
Typhoon
La-7
Spitfire XVI


Now think about that: Do you REALLY want to further increase the P-51D's usage even further? I mean for bombs alone, its tied for second greatest ordnance capacity. Hell, the La-7, probably the best fighter on this list, is just as viable an option for a JABO raid as the 110 is. Do you really want a horde of La-7's or Spitfire XVI's flying NOE alongside those lancaster?

Because I sure as hell don't.



Besides the general increase in the quality of effective JABO fighters, which would make NOE hordes even worse, it would totally kill diversity, which is always, always, ALWAYS just a bad idea in general.

[Ack-Ack]

Perked ordnance should be applied to historical usage.

ack-ack

[Tinkles]

Perked ordnance should be applied to historical usage.

ack-ack

That was something I forgot to mention.

That was another solution I was going to have. For example: In another thread there was talk of the 262 (a variant we don't have.. I think) that had rockets. So in that case because it was rare/limited use, it would have a slight perk increase with it.



As for Hawker, Karnak and Tank-Ace.   This was just a way I thought it might work, it isn't law, so don't freak out *looks at Hawker*.

Since I've heard the perk ordinance topic over and over, those who support it, what do you think of it? How would you change it/implement it?  I don't really support or am against it, it does intrigue me though.


To Karnak - That's why I said if there was a perk price at all it would be towards the heavy hitter stuff (like the 18 500s and 1 4k for the lancaster).  But I also understand if there wouldn't be a perk price for bomber ordinance because without it, they are useless.

To Tank-Ace  - I understand where you are coming from. If you limit anything in a sandbox then there is a new list of weak to strong things, easy to challenging, and the same methods will be taken that have been forever. New 'favorite uber rides' will be chosen that can do more damage than the rest, yet still falling within the 'new guidelines'.       

To Hawker - Such enthusiasm as always.



New Perspective

Perhaps add a perk earned feature for bombs?  If you get a kill with 1000lbers you get less perks than if you get a kill with 100-250-500s?  And if you are attacking an ammo bunker and it takes 200 lbs of damage and you kill it with a 1000lber you get less perks, than if you kill it with 2 100s or 1 250?


I'm trying to find a way of making it so the 1000lber is available to all, but is less... inviting because you get less reward for over-killing something.
As for 1000lbers, I can see them being used for towns (AOE) and HQ/Strats.  But I think if they are used for over-kill on fuel tanks, ammo bunkers, radar towers, and other stuff like that; then the player should get less perks than normal, because it was major overkill. However, if they use something equal or slightly more damage than health (like my 200 'health' ammo bunker), then they get more perks for it. Encouraging and rewarding players who seek a challenge, and discourage (yet do not limit, and still give perks/reward) to those who use 1000lbers to kill much-lesser 'health' objects.


If you do not agree with what I stated in this post, or want to tweak it. Please list something

 

[Karnak]

Perking the "heavy hitters" on something that really only has heavy hitters going for it pretty much makes it useless.  May as well perk the Lancaster itself if you are just going to limit its unperked loadouts to B-17G or B-24J levels.  There would be no reason to take it at that point when you have free, much better defended bombers that carry the same load for free.

[Tank-Ace]

500lbs is fine free, given that it opens the door to a significantly greater number of aircraft, and still gives the bombers a greater role.

It allows the Japanese to actually carry a useful bombload. Or are you going to tell me that the Ki-43 is too good of a JABO, and that we need to limit it's useage in that role. Or the 109, is that too good of a JABO to be unrestricted? How about the Spitfire VIII? Clearly so good we need to control its usage.

[HawkerMKII]

Ok so what next, perk fuel and bullets?

1 perk for each 50cal shot
5 perks for each 20mm shot
10 perks for each 30mm shot

1 perk per gallon of fuel used

Runway use tax....50 perks to take off

Log into game tax....100 perks

Sorry to say but perks on ords bad idea, you will take buffs out of game

[Drane]

-1

If too much stuff gets perked I'll find another game to play. Not all of us have bookoo perks to waste.

Thank You 

[hotcoffe]

+1 only if bombers are kept out of this...

[asterix]

-1
Wasn`t a 500lb bomb common on fighters in real life?
Maybe 1000lb bomb should be perked, but that would probabbly mean that buffs with 500lb bombs would be used to take out hangars. Doesn`t more bombers mean less fighters and less dogfights?

I was thinking of how I can grab a perk plane, get any type of loadout I want, and the plane "perk" cost is still the same.

This seems logical for me, because if two players take an F4U-C for example then the one with 2x1000lb bombs and 4x5in rockets climbs slower and is probably in a worse position for a dogfight than the other player. In other words it climbs slower and there is a bigger chance that someone dives down from above to attack.

[Randy1]

A big no.

The problem is not the bombs it is the targets.  Have planes and equipment on the field to be bombed and strafed.  Rockets and 500 pounders would then be the common load out.

[BuckShot]

-1

No perked ords, just require more ords to destroy a target. No more jabos dropping hangers on their own.

[Tinkles]

Ok so what next, perk fuel and bullets?

1 perk for each 50cal shot
5 perks for each 20mm shot
10 perks for each 30mm shot

1 perk per gallon of fuel used

Runway use tax....50 perks to take off

Log into game tax....100 perks

Sorry to say but perks on ords bad idea, you will take buffs out of game

Fuel and bullets would've been in the OP if I wanted to have them perked.

I did however mention increasing the amount or decreasing the amount of perks earned by a slight margin depending on what gun loadout you grabbed.

As for taxes, I wouldn't do them unless we had an economy, and this isn't World of Warcraft - so that wasn't my intention either.

To Karnak - Makes sense on the bombers, was just throwing out ideas.

To Tank-ace - Not trying to limit the usage of any plane, but I can see how messing with the bombs and adding a 'cost' to certain ones, would affect how often they are used.   Again, my overall intention of this thread was for limiting the usage of the 1000lb bomb for tasks that the lower damaging bombs could accomplish.  The other purpose (which I was thinking of after my 2nd post) was limiting the usage of 'rarer/not used often' loadouts that are used all the time - with no additional cost, yet all the benefits.

I don't know what loadouts of some planes are the normal and which aren't. That would be for HTC to ultimately decide.

Example: If the P38 with 2 500s was normal and 2 1000s wasn't. A slight perk cost for the 2 1000s, if the P38 with 4 500s ( ) wasn't normal or extremely rare, then slightly more than the 2 1000s.  (This would only apply to the P38 in this example). It would go Plane by Plane, not as a 'whole'.  SO if 1000s were normal for F4Us in this case, then there wouldn't be any 'cost' for that loadout because that was normal.   Still follow?

For those who don't have bombs, or all loadouts given were part of the 'norm', like the Yak3, then only the gun part would apply.

I do change my ideas or perspective often based on the feedback I receive, and when I start thinking I get new ideas or spins on it.

EXAMPLE

The gun part (as mentioned just now), I will apply to the YakU, 37mm or 20mm, my 1st post would've punished the player if they chose the 37mm and rewarded them with the 20mm.    However, I want to change that, modify it.. if you will.  Instead of giving you a perk decrease for choosing a better or more commonly used setup (for guns loadouts only).  I was thinking normal costs for 'normal' weapons and whatever weapons or loadouts are harder to use / weren't common (out of the ones we have for the planes) would get a perk increase added to their ENY kills.

So if you want to choose your normal weapon loadout, and it was used often or isn't challenging to use, then you still earn the normal amount of perks you would anyways. However, if it's more challenging/difficult to use, then you get more of a reward for killing something.  

Another example would be the I-L2.  The 20mm loadout would give more perks if you killed tanks or planes, than if you chose the 37mm loadout.


Does this sound good? Any pros or cons you can think of?  I'm trying to reward players for choosing a harder to use / harder to get a kill with.. loadout, which challenges the player, but also doesn't punish the player who doesn't want that challenge/isn't comfortable using that weapons setup/loadout.   It just rewards the player who wants the challenge a little more for each kill they get.


Does that sound good?  If not, can you please list why?