Arado Ar-234

[Rich46yo]

Theres a $20 reward to the Military related charity of the killers choice should anyone ever shoot me down in a 234. Did a run last night and took out a Nit GV hangar that was plauging us.

I have a list of sneaky, stealthy tricks. The most important being running like Hell.

[GScholz]

 

[lyric1]

Only on experimental night-fighters.

There is a one off situation other than the night fighter squadron.
As Karnak had mentioned Erich K. Sommer used one.

[ReVo]

Ive never once used the guns in that thing and never once been shot down in it.

You should talk to NKL. 

[GScholz]

There is a one off situation other than the night fighter squadron.
As Karnak had mentioned Erich K. Sommer used one.

Cool! 

[FLS]

This is a clear case of evidence of absence. Some people have done significant research into the 234 and not found evidence of guns in operational use. That in itself is "evidence of absence". While a negative can never be proven all the evidence suggests it and no evidence contradicts it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence

In this case there are contradictory statements from reputable people like Capt Eric Brown who investigated and flew the Arados surviving the war. Lyric presented a good case for most Arados not having guns.

[Spikes]

So maybe they aren't effective but they can help in really bad situations especially when the only way to actually intercept it is from dead 6. Even 262s straggle to catch it.

They are very effective...I used to take them up frequently without bombs and just lure people in and kill them...good times.

[lyric1]

Found this video (no sound) on youtube. I don't see any guns mounted on this plane though?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G2N4HGJus4

I have seen this video before on Youtube but not with this clarity & resolution. The first aircraft in the video is the very first AR-234 with landing gear it was V9.  Later it was given the PH+SQ designation markings. What is interesting about this aircraft it is probably the most filmed & photographed of all the AR-234's made by the Germans during WWII.

Yet when you read books from an earlier era they get the facts wrong about this very aircraft.

For example from the very same book & only 1 page apart from each other the book totally contradicts it self.



One page over.



  Well what happened they sent it to another facility to get a periscope rear guns bomb racks & so on & so on.

Yet the video evidence & photos don't support this fact.
Why you may ask?
Well the fact is this aircraft per the later books say PH+SQ never was fitted with a periscope & a few other things that I have talked about before.

The authors of earlier written books just quoted other sources with out verifying the facts as this example above shows. Some of the very same authors who wrote extensively about the AR-234B who wrote later editions of the same book changed their own findings.

 
 

[Denniss]

The guns never made it into operational Ar 234B - they are in the Baubeschreibung of 1943 and early 44 but no mention of it in manuals of summer 44 and late 44, not even as planned or optional equipment.
Thus these guns are a myth in the B-version.
The game devs actually fail to acknowledge their error to include these guns.

[Karnak]

The guns never made it into operational Ar 234B - they are in the Baubeschreibung of 1943 and early 44 but no mention of it in manuals of summer 44 and late 44, not even as planned or optional equipment.
Thus these guns are a myth in the B-version.
The game devs actually fail to acknowledge their error to include these guns.

They weren't on the Ar234 in the initial release of it in AH, but some time later, years I seem to recall, somebody convinced them that they should be there and they were added.  Lyric has been trying to get that reversed.

[Scca]

AR's counted for 0.07% of the kills last month.  Is there any real reason to remove them?

[Karnak]

AR's counted for 0.07% of the kills last month.  Is there any real reason to remove them?

Ar234s? no.

The guns on them?  Absolutely yes.  Why?  Because the real one didn't have them.

[Chalenge]

I think it would be even better to remodel the aircraft with forward facing guns. Then you could have jet-vs-jet combat even without the Meteor. And it actually flew that way during the war, so there wouldn't be any basis to complain about it.

[Scca]

Ar234s? no.

The guns on them?  Absolutely yes.  Why?  Because the real one didn't have them.

There seems to be a debate about that..

ON EDIT: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,305406.0.html  16 pages of AR love...  look like they had guns (though not often)

[Chalenge]

No, the evidence has been tainted by two authors that retracted their evidence, but it was too late. Everyone writing about the Arado had already run off with the guns idea and its been epidemic ever since. It's urban legend now.

And Erin Brown never said there were guns on an Arado.