Score\Stats\Rank vs. Skill Misperception‎s

[Lusche]

I don't think you can tell diddly squat about anything by looking at any of the scores or stats.

You actually can tell quite a lot from it - if you know how to interpret it. With experience, the combined score & stats pages become a player's business card to you (which of course doesn't mean it's telling you everything)

[Gman]

a player's business card

I like how you put that, and I agree.  That's actually a unique and accurate way to describe things IMO, well done as usual Lusche.

[LCADolby]

My AH business card;

Dolby
Jack of all trades, master of none.
You are perfectly safe so long you're sat right infront of the target.

[Lusche]

I like how you put that, and I agree.  That's actually a unique and accurate way to describe things IMO, well done as usual Lusche.

Not that much unique...  I think I have just stolen that from someone else  

[ink]

Gman....latrobe and bruv fly NOTHING like each other....the exact opposite actually.


the only way score...or "stats" will tell you anything is if you know....... absolutely..... know how that person flies....NOT thinking you know how they fly....but KNOWING.

[BluBerry]

This is exactly what I mean - how two or three of the most important stats interrelate to give an overall picture of how a pilot flies, and how dangerous he is in either ACM or BnZ, or both in some occasions.  

Like I said, it's just a guideline, and there are always exceptions, lots of them.  I didn't say that if you see a guy with terrible stats (not score/rank, but STATS like k/d and k/t) that he may not be a great fight.  Not everyone even fits into the stats/idea I describe.

What I do maintain is that if you see a pilot's stats that have a combination of high kill/death, high kill/time, and perhaps high accuracy as well, THAT pilot will be someone to watch for, and will typically be a good ACM fighter.  It's very hard to get both a high k/t and high k/d simultaneously - it's easy to get either alone, IMO, but hard to combine both, as in order to get a lot of kills per hour, you can't run or pick much, yet to have a high k/d with that, you have to also survive those fights you don't run from, nor can you float around at 25k looking to pick guys, as your kill/time will plummet.  

That's my only point really that I will say is usually accurate with say 3/4 of the guys I check stats on - if their kill/time and kill/death are both high, they are usually a Bruv/Fester/Grizz/etc/etc/etc type pilot, good at absolutely everything, and in particular ACM.

Generally what I'm saying is that if I check a guys stats in game, and he has a really high kill/death, but low everything else, he's a good BnZ'er and usually found overhead somewhere when not diving down guns blazing - again GENERALLY.  When I see high kill/time but low kill/death, the pilot is usually a scrapper, probably decent ACM, but not a survivor, and either doesn't care about stats at all, or if he does, he bites off more than he can chew in terms of fighting many v one type fights on the short end of the stick.  When I see combined high kill/death and high kill/time - again, it's usually a name I know already, like Groovy Bruvy, and many many others.

Check the stats yourself, Bruv is always in double digits for both k/d and k/t, Latrobe is always in 10+ kill/time, and around 2 to 3 in kill/death.  Compare how both fly - I've never seen Latrobe over 10k, and usually it's about 2k or less, always fighting outnumbered.  Bruv flies much the same, but usually doesn't allow himself to get into a fight like that he'll lose.  They're both fantastic pilots, yet still have a slightly different style, one that the stats confirm if you look at it the way I'm describing, and if you've watched both pilots in game much, you'll agree I think with what I'm saying about their styles, that are very similar, yet slightly different as well.

Now look at a pilot like Zoney, super SA, probably among the best in the game, and the consummate BnZ pilot.  Check his tour stats out - 141 is a great example - 28 k/d, which is insane, and less than 2 kill/hour for kill/time stats.  That falls right into line with what I'm talking about, and his style which is another type I described - Zoney isn't down in the weeds nearly as much as Labtrobe, and rarely if ever puts himself in a spot where he may lose or get ganged up on.  That stats clearly agree with this, and if you've watched Zoney in game, you'll agree I think that this is how he flies, and does it brilliantly, to the point of being a perfect example for a "how to" manual.

If you had never met these people you listed, or heard stories, seen videos, read what they wrote.. if all that was gone and never existed.. and you just had their scores in front of you.. you could never figure out that Zoney is always flying at higher alts and latrobe isn't. You couldn't know that latrobe doesn't care about making it back or that he could spank pretty much everyone with a better score then him 1 v 1.

You can throw out names and use your existing knowledge of these players to read what you want into the score.. but as I said.. If you had never heard of these people before you wouldn't be able to tell their flight styles at all apart from what you create in your mind out of their k/d's and k/t's. Is it easy to assume that someone with a good k/d and k/t is a smart flyer or above average pilot? Sure, but that is about it. Your stats will never reveal who is a BnZ'er and who's a turner, or what alt they fly at or how good their SA is.

Score is to easy to manipulate, if you want to have a great K/D of 10+ its not that hard.. you just have to fly for score and make the choices that come along with that.

[Lusche]

if you want to have a great K/D of 10+ its not that hard..

I disagree vehemently. It's way beyond the standard capability of the ordinary AH pilot. It would be only possible for him to reach if he's not only exceptionally cautios, but also being very, very lucky.

[BluBerry]

I disagree vehemently. It's way beyond the standard capability of the ordinary AH pilot. It would be only possible for him to reach if he's not only exceptionally cautios, but also being very, very lucky.

When next tour starts fly like an alt monkey in a fighter, always BnZ and if someone is co-alt run away, play super cautious and run at the first sign of trouble and bing.. you will have a pretty damn good k/d.

It ain't quick, your k/t will suck.. but my point is you can directly modify your play style to raise a certain statistic like k/d, so you can actually improve your k/d dramatically but not have any change in skill level.. essentially what I'm getting at is you can still suck and have a good score.. so to read into score like it tells us all about the pilot is foolish. It is the most basic view and one where the data can be easily manipulated.

You cannot accurately gauge ones skill level on score alone.

[Lusche]

When next tour starts fly like an alt monkey in a fighter, always BnZ and if someone is co-alt run away, play super cautious and run at the first sign of trouble and bing.. you will have a pretty damn good k/d.

Of course the K/D will improve, but the average AH pilot will still hardly be able to get to a k/d like 10/1. He still would make to much errors: Mess up his attack, misjudge his E, getting surprised by even higher cons, not checking his 6 often enough and being target fixated, miss the opportunity to get out while he can... so many opportunities to fail.

With so many "timid" BnZ pilots in the arena, you'd expect a lot more people reaching 10-1 k/d than the usually less than 1% actually achieving it - if it realyl wasn't hard at all.

[BluBerry]

Of course the K/D will improve, but the average AH pilot will still hardly be able to get to a k/d like 10/1. He still would make to much errors: Mess up his attack, misjudge his E, getting surprised by even higher cons, not checking his 6 often enough and being target fixated, miss the opportunity to get out while he can... so many opportunities to fail.

With so many "timid" BnZ pilots in the arena, you'd expect a lot more people reaching 10-1 k/d than the usually less than 1% actually achieving it - if it realyl wasn't hard at all.

Thats because most people don't have the time available and couldn't be bothered. Do you think the people with the best scores in the game play the most, or the least?

[BluBerry]

Lusche, you being slow to respond this time makes me feel like I'm about to get hit with a chart 

[Wiley]

Thats because most people don't have the time available and couldn't be bothered. Do you think the people with the best scores in the game play the most, or the least?

I think the point you're missing Bluberry is the 'average' MA pilot can't do the things you're talking about.  Guys like you, me, Lusche, most of the people posting in this thread could do it if they were so inclined because they're at least in the top 20% skillwise in the game.  If I am in that group, the other 80% are pretty sorry.

The 'average' guy can't even put together a decent one pass haul bellybutton if the target sees them coming.  Think about how often you see a guy looking for a BnZ and how easy the majority of them are to avoid.  That's your 'average' guy BnZing.  If you're in an area where there are multiples, chances are you've got friends with you that he'll have the chance to screw up in front of.  Unless he's a decent stick, he's not going to survive the sortie as often as you seem to think.  IMO anyways.

Wiley.

[BluBerry]

I think the point you're missing Bluberry is the 'average' MA pilot can't do the things you're talking about.  Guys like you, me, Lusche, most of the people posting in this thread could do it if they were so inclined because they're at least in the top 20% skillwise in the game.  If I am in that group, the other 80% are pretty sorry.

The 'average' guy can't even put together a decent one pass haul bellybutton if the target sees them coming.  Think about how often you see a guy looking for a BnZ and how easy the majority of them are to avoid.  That's your 'average' guy BnZing.  If you're in an area where there are multiples, chances are you've got friends with you that he'll have the chance to screw up in front of.  Unless he's a decent stick, he's not going to survive the sortie as often as you seem to think.  IMO anyways.

Wiley.

Well I will concede that I am probably wrong about the average abilities of AH pilots, however I still believe that it is impossible to judge skill level on score alone.

[Gman]

I don't disagree with much anyone has said.  I base what I'm saying about the stats on knowledge I know from observation of the players I'm using in the examples, that is true, and I don't argue with it.  What I will say is that if anyone mimics those stats, they are usually the same type of pilot as those I mention in each various stat.

And ink, I did say that Latrobe and Bruv flew differently, although both have extremely good ACM abilities - I did plainly say that Latrobe is usually in the weeds outnumbered, and Bruv tends to avoid betting in that situation if possible, although he is perfectly capable of fighting his way out of these if he wants - again, this is all just my opinion based on what I've seen, and the stats back it up.

Bluberry, if it's so easy to get both a high k/d and a high kill/time, prove it - I'm telling you it isn't, it is very hard work and takes a lot of aggressive flying, accurate shooting, and going where the fights are, constantly.  I'm saying this from experience, as I was the type with high kill/time, flying much like Latrobe, only worse - I would have 2 or less kill/death ratios and around 9 to 10 kills/hour.  To bring that k/d up to 4 or 5 and maintain or increase the kills/hour is unbelievably hard.  Again, if it's such a snap to manipulate scores and do that, prove it next tour - I'm betting you can't get a 6 k/d and a double digit k/h your first attempt at doing so, but hey, feel free to prove me wrong.  And I know how good you are, you're a far above average pilot in the game IMO, it's just I'm saying it is THAT hard to do it with those combined stats.

Again, I'm speaking from experience, I flew for 13 years just like I was in Air Quake, then I took some training from guys far better than I, and adjusted my SA and aggression.  My last 4 tours I've had a K/D and K/time combination of 4.0/12.96, 3.7/10.2, 5.7/11.20, 4.2/10.5.  My goal is Bruv like numbers, something frankly I doubt I have the ability to reach, but that's why it's a goal.  My previous stats would be 1.5-2 k/d ratios, and around 5 to 7 kills per hour.  My accuracy is around 9 to 12, nothing spectacular at all, and has stayed pretty constant throughout the last 14 years.  I'm telling you, to go from my old stats to what I'm doing now is VERY hard, and to go from what I'm doing now to what Bruv, Zoney, and various other guys 10x better than I'll ever be is bordering on impossible for average Joe's like me.  If you think I'm wrong Bluberry, I'd love to see you prove it next tour - a 6 kill/death ratio and a 10 kills/hour.

[Lusche]

Thats because most people don't have the time available and couldn't be bothered. Do you think the people with the best scores in the game play the most, or the least?

You would think a lot more than 1% would try to get as many kills to as little deaths as possible. If more than 99% of the pilots really don't push for a good K/D at all, there should never be any complains about "timid pilots only engaging when having the advantage" or "lame BnZ clowns".


The fact is, skill level and capabilities of Mr AH average are almost always vastly overated by the 'vets'. Often along the line of "If I can/could do this, everybody can"... by players which aren't aware that they surpass 90% of the arena population in combat ability.

Yes, everybody can boost his K/D by employing a few "techniques", at the expense of other stats, most notably k/h. Not disputing that at all. However, even with tripling his standard K/D Mr Average would end up with about K/D 1.5. For K/D 10 he would have to boost his K/D by something like x20.
You simply can't get there with a decent set of significantly above average skills, most notable shooting and broader "tactical situation awareness" (i.e. reading the map, which suprisingly many pilots do generally have trouble with).