Author Topic: Seen this and thought I'd get opinions on it  (Read 1953 times)

Offline eagl

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Re: Seen this and thought I'd get opinions on it
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2014, 11:32:18 AM »
My current job involves, in part, studying people in really poor conditions...  Some of these places have zero electronics other than a single phone and one solar panel to charge it.  The only vehicle they own or share with other families is one beat up pickup truck or tractor, and everything else they own is made out of mud, sticks, and goat hair.  They seem to survive both harsh summers and bitterly cold/snowy winters just fine with what they have.  The American concept of 'poverty' would be considered unbelievably wealthy to these people, and strangely enough many of them don't seem to want any part of our way of life.  Maybe they have a point.

Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline morfiend

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Re: Seen this and thought I'd get opinions on it
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2014, 11:44:28 AM »
My current job involves, in part, studying people in really poor conditions...  Some of these places have zero electronics other than a single phone and one solar panel to charge it.  The only vehicle they own or share with other families is one beat up pickup truck or tractor, and everything else they own is made out of mud, sticks, and goat hair.  They seem to survive both harsh summers and bitterly cold/snowy winters just fine with what they have.  The American concept of 'poverty' would be considered unbelievably wealthy to these people, and strangely enough many of them don't seem to want any part of our way of life.  Maybe they have a point.




 I dont find that so strange,they have a simple but meaningfull life and thats a good thing in my eyes!

  We get force fed so much stuff,keeping up with the Kardashians has us running around chasing our tails!  I suppose if I was to be honest I'd have to admit to living like that at 1 time but I had an unfortunate accident and was just days away from loosing everything I had worked for.

  Then it was over and things got much better for me but comming so close to loosing everything changed me and I vowed to never be in that position again! So I cleared all debt,paid off the house and only bought a couple toys for my kid!

  I'm comfortable,my house is just the right size for the two of us and we dont "need" more!

    :salute

Offline eagl

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Re: Seen this and thought I'd get opinions on it
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2014, 12:02:06 PM »
I think many people need to have that moment or event in their life that changes how they look at a lifestyle of "things".  My parents never bought anything on credit and gave me a great example of how to live debt free, and I wasn't doing too bad on my own, but my ah-ha moment was when I bought quicken one year and entered in a year's worth of income and expenses, and realized I'd spent about $20k on computer parts that year.  Oops.  I plead youth and ignorance, your honor :)  It was $300 for a new cpu whenever AMD or Intel came out with the next generation, $250 for the latest graphics card every 6 months, a new mobo to get the benefits of a faster memory controller, the latest sound card, a fast intel NIC because my cheapo realtek network adaptor *might* be adding latency, etc etc.  Every purchase made sense at the time but it added up to a stupidly huge amount of money.  Luckily I was young unmarried and had zero debt at the time, otherwise I could have been in a world of hurt financially if I'd done all that on credit.  Every one of those purchases was on a credit card that I paid off in full at the end of the month, and no one month's bill looked unusually large, until I added it up at the end of the year.  Holy crap.

Ever since then, I have a "tech junk" budget that I try to stick to, and I buy it on a debit card not a credit card so it is reflected in the checking account balance that same day.  It is enough that I could, if I wanted or needed to, buy a new mid-range computer every year.  But I don't and haven't bought a whole new computer in about 4 years, so I always have wiggle room in my tech junk budget to get one neat extra every year.  This year I splurged on an ipad mini, and recycled old parts to build up a computer for my kids instead of coming up with a completely new build, and I still have about $600 budgeted this year for tech junk in case anything breaks.
 
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: Seen this and thought I'd get opinions on it
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2014, 01:41:18 PM »
eagl I dont think he's asking about economic lessons.  he's just asking about computer parts.  it's his choice how to pay for it.


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Offline Brooke

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Re: Seen this and thought I'd get opinions on it
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2014, 06:41:40 PM »
I seen this a few days ago and thought I would get some opinions on the components and overall price.

I'd buy this:

Inspiron Desktop 3000 with i5-4440 processor ($500).  Note that this is *not* the "Small Desktop" version but the normal-sized "Desktop" version.
GeForce GTX 650 Ti graphics card:  $130 from Newegg.com -- or GTX 650 Ti Boost if you can get one for about $160 from Newegg.com, TigerDirect.com, or BestBuy.com.
Seasonic 600 W power supply:  $65 (or some other reputable 600 W power supply, maybe Thermaltake, from Newegg.com)
total = $695

This will run AH very well for (if history is any judge) years.  If you find some years down the road that it isn't sufficient for what you want, but another $700 setup at that time.

In my opinion, this method of buying a $700 system every several years instead of a more-expensive system less frequently will save you money and provide better performance over time.  That's what I do.  My current system is like this (Dell based, graphics card from Newegg, etc.) but bought for $700 several years ago.  So, it is significantly less capable than the $700 system outlined above, yet I fly AH with everything maxed out except for the "local reflections" or whatever it is called, where I have the slider minimized; and I get 60 fps everywhere, including in thick clouds (which I use in special events at times).

Offline eagl

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Re: Seen this and thought I'd get opinions on it
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2014, 12:42:43 AM »
eagl I dont think he's asking about economic lessons.  he's just asking about computer parts.  it's his choice how to pay for it.


semp

No.  He said this:
Quote
What caught my attention was the payment plans, instead of 'pay for it all now then receive' you can pay it monthly, giving you time to pay it off while owning it.

Sound too good to be true?

Hence the economic lesson being completely on topic, since that's the question that was actually asked.

You could have figured that out yourself but you chose to ignore it.  Hitting too close to home?  Or maybe you just wanted to be the first to actually go off topic in the thread, and just couldn't resist trying to be snippy and/or witty?  You picked a bad day to threadjack and/or go trolling.  Bugger off and let the adults discuss the merits of buying crap you can't afford, or at least be quiet and listen and learn something.


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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Seen this and thought I'd get opinions on it
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2014, 01:40:57 AM »
There are a few market research studies out there that show that even if the credit card is paid off in full at the end of the month, overall spending is up to 17% higher when using credit instead of cash.  It has nothing to do with interest rates and everything to do with psychology and having opportunity cost slap you in the face with EVERY purchase, right at the register.  People who follow your advice deal with opportunity cost up to a month (or even a year in the case of "1 year no payments") later, diluting its effect on spending habits.  People who must confront the opportunity cost ramifications at the time of purchase are far less likely to spend that extra little bit, even when they can afford to.  17% is not chump change, but that's the average spending impact even with people who have the discipline and income to pay off their credit cards at the end of each month and don't carry a balance.

There's also an opportunity cost in not using other people's money.  If the simple use of credit causes you to spend 17%  more that you would have otherwise then you shouldn't use credit.  For a fiscally responsible individual the use of no interest and rewards credit can provide at least modest gains.

Credit companies don't really care if the consumer spends more or if they don't (if they do that's a bonus for them), they make their money by charging the retailer every time you make a purchase on credit.  A 17% increase in purchases is miniscule on a net margin basis in comparison to the charges to the retailer.

If you want to be rich, act like rich people.  They're not financing their cars or computers just because of a low interest rate or deferred payment, and those rich people didn't do that before they were rich either.

Most rich people aren't using credit to make nominal purchases yet it doesn't mean they don't use credit.  The scales are just different.  They use other people's money all the time.  Normally the people they borrow from are called "shareholders" or "bondholders" and a great many of them got rich by leveraging their businesses.

Well, there is one other exception to cash only...  If you can't keep food on the table or the power/water on in the house, you do what you gotta do including feeding the kids on credit and just not paying off the CC until you figure something out or increase income or sell everything non-essential, move to a cheaper place, etc etc.  But someone feeding their kids on credit probably shouldn't own any car but a $500 beater, shouldn't own a TV or smartphone, shouldn't have cable tv service, etc.  Lots of "essentials" really aren't, and those should be ditched long before it gets to that point.

OK, this one takes the cake as the worst financial "advice" I've ever heard.  I agree with sell everything and spend nothing on anything non essential but you'de actually encourage a poor person to dig themselves into a hole they're likely never to be able to get out of?  Most people, regardless of social status have friends and family.  There are social programs designed to keep people from starving.  There are many other options and most people in that situation won't be eligable for credit to begin with.

Finally, I'm familiar with Dave Ramsey.  While I'm sure he's helped thousands to get out of and control debt I wouldn't qualify that as a "trusted financial advisor" unless I'm simply unfamiliar with his work in helping people accumulate and structure assets, minimize taxes, protect income, finance businesses, protect families and possesions, protect assets in old age, establish an estate plan and the many many other things that "trusted financial advisors" do.

I'm sure you're a smart guy but I'm also sure you're not an expert in personal or business finance based on your prolific posts here.  Perhaps you should concentrate on your areas of expertise and put your MBA to better use.
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Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Seen this and thought I'd get opinions on it
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2014, 04:39:24 AM »
... and the RACE TO THE BOTTOM IS ON!!!
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline Tinkles

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Re: Seen this and thought I'd get opinions on it
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2014, 09:37:59 AM »
 :O

Eagl did you take Bustr's coffee ?   :lol

My original intentions were to get the computer then pay it off before the interest kicked in. Instead of just paying 20-50 dollars a month like they would want me to. The marketing behind it is quite simple, you pay little increments until you owe them nothing. However, the increments are small enough so that you cross the 'interest line' and owe them another '19.99-29.99%' in interest fees.   If I understood it correctly  ;)

However, I already decided to go a different route. 

I am extremely grateful for all the quality information in this thread, I did indeed take it to heart and learn from it.

I feel like the kid raised by a village.  :lol


 :salute

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Offline wpeters

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Re: Seen this and thought I'd get opinions on it
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2014, 10:10:35 AM »
+1 to all the great advice in this thread
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Seen this and thought I'd get opinions on it
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2014, 12:42:13 AM »
I'm going to add one last thing to this conversation.

You're right, the exception to the cash-only rule is the house mortgage.  You can minimize the impact on your life by going with a 15 yr mortgage, and again accepting the hard reality that if you can't make the payment for a 15 yr mortgage, then maybe you need to wait a bit longer to build up the down payment, or pick a smaller house.

In the recent past you could get a 15 year mortgage for under 3% and a 30 year mortgage for under 4%.  Both are slightly over those percentages now but for the sake of discussion I'll use those interest rates.

To make things easy I'll assume an average person in a 25% tax bracket.  That means with their mortgage interest deduction on their taxes at the start of the loan (as only the interest is decuctable) their effective interest rates are 2.25% and 3.00% respectively for a fifteen and thirty year morgage.

Over the past thirty years the S&P 500 index has gained, on average, 6.5% per year.  Assuming you're invested in a tax sensitive investment and are a buy and hold investor your earnings are subject only to a 15% long term capital gains tax for an effective return of 5.5%.

By taking out a 30 year mortgage and investing the money you'de be paying to reduce that to 15 years you'd gain 2.25% on that money after taxes, or double the amount you'd save by paying it off in 15 years.

The caveat to this is that paying off the mortgage guarantees you a 2.25% savings where investments are variable and pose a risk of loss.  Over the past thirty years inflation has averaged just under 3% per year compounding the loss in early repayment since inflation compounds where mortgage interest doesn't.  In fact, in the recent past taking out a mortgage has provided a positive spread on the money borrowed vs inflation (literally, the banks/government were paying you to borrow).  

The only way that early repayment makes sense in todays interst rate environment is if you're ultra conservative and can't stomach market volitility, if it's an emotional or economic decision such as wanting the mortgage to be repaid prior to retirement or, in some cases, if you've crossed the line where mortgage interest no longer provides a meaningful tax deduction.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 01:09:04 AM by BaldEagl »
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Offline morfiend

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Re: Seen this and thought I'd get opinions on it
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2014, 03:12:37 PM »
 Bald,

  I dont doubt your figures but unfortnately where I live the interest on your mortgage isnt tax deductable so in that case it's in your best interest{pun intended} to reduce the amertization to as short a period as possible. This only applied to myself and I wasnt suggesting other do the same as I did or do.

 Oh and 25% bracket,most here would jump for joy to be in that bracket but thats another discussion for another day! :rofl


    :salute

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Seen this and thought I'd get opinions on it
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2014, 03:36:48 PM »
Bald,

  I dont doubt your figures but unfortnately where I live the interest on your mortgage isnt tax deductable so in that case it's in your best interest{pun intended} to reduce the amertization to as short a period as possible. This only applied to myself and I wasnt suggesting other do the same as I did or do.

 Oh and 25% bracket,most here would jump for joy to be in that bracket but thats another discussion for another day! :rofl


    :salute

Yes, well the deduction only reduces the effective borrowing rate. At question is whether inflation outpaces the effective rate on your borrowing. If it does, you should hold the debt since every year devalues that principal. Fact: inflation favors the debtor. I suspect inflation outpaces mortgages rates right now despite the reported CPI metrics. Why? because the FEd doesn't like to report higher inflation (political pressure), and, as with any metric, there are a number of ways to game it. For example, the Fed can substitute "like  value/use" goods to the preexisting basket with which they measure CPI. There are also a variety of layers, as with unemployment (consider that the U6 counts disaffecteds while the typically reported rate does not) - the same applies to reported inflation.

Do a little experiment if you like: go get commodity price data and check any commodity's trace against the various periods of quantitative easing we've had. If you believe that 1 commodity can fluctuate due to specific variation, do 10 of 'em. The result will  be quite enlightening. I did this experiment, I want to say, around the March 2010 round. Guess what commodities do when you print currency..?

So, when I told the kid not to hold debt but rather cash, I could've been more clear. Better to hold assets that hedge you against a nutjob with a printing press. THe object lesson is the same, though. Besides, if he's going to lay out for a computer, why not get one that can run more than one OS? I've got a whole network of those badboys - and I run AH on the damned oldest one using windows, no less. Mac... the other red meat.
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Offline Pudgie

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Re: Seen this and thought I'd get opinions on it
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2014, 12:17:30 PM »
Please, PLEASE don't stop participating in this thread....................... ..........................

Did I say that I love you guys?

Y'all can shoot me & my Spitty down all the time.................just don't stop adding meaningful conversation to this thread!

I didn't achieve a MBA & so I need all the help I can get!

 :D :aok :salute
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Seen this and thought I'd get opinions on it
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2014, 03:18:13 PM »
The only company I'd recommend is Digital Storm in CA. . I'd never buy another computer from anywhere else. Their support is that good.

I checked out Alienware. far to much $ for what you get. And Dell blows. Totally blows.
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