Cougar hunting

[RotBaron]

No not that kind, that is fun.  

Here's what I don't get. Was watching the Outdoor channel, good programs, fine, I think we've already had the tree stand/feeding deer discussion so I won't go into that, but treeing big cats with dogs and calling it a hunt?

After watching the same 'ole deer programs, sheep hunts etc., the program goes into mtn lion hunting. Several on this certain program went as far as to say "some of the hardest" hunting you'll ever do. Now that is laughable. You find the scent with dogs, tree the cat, and shoot. What's hard?

I've hunted all my life after age ~8, I've on two occasions had the feeling I was being stalked by mtn lion, one was javelina hunting and another elk. Never could determine for sure with the javelina hunt, but on the elk, no doubt...big cat prints in snow that went everywhere I went; they weren't there before I started my hike into that area...Yet I've never felt compelled to hunt this elusive and potentially dangerous cat. I was asked once to kill a nuisance mtn lion (rancher was concerned for his kids) and said I would if I encountered it, never did though.

Hard is an otc bull elk hunt in CO on the 3rd of 3 otc hunts ~early Nov in cold temps, +1' of snow at elvations starting at 8000'. Those hunts have a success ratio of 8-12%. I have done about 8 of those in total and had very little success. There's a reason why they are called the ghosts of the black timber, not to be confused with the hormone raging elk in the rut that could care less about human presence other than if they think you're challenging their right to the harem.

So what's so hard about a mtn lion hunt using dogs? If these guys weren't using dogs, I'll buy that, but otherwise...I'm not saying anyone should not do it, to each their own, but hard? Not so much for able bodied persons.  

[Vudu15]

Well moving through the same terrain as your elk hunts your now hunting a big cat that isn't real stupid (and could potentially mess you up) and they seem to back track themselves a lot. But sure I bet its really easy, just like lots of other types of hunting. In reality though I think all types of hunting/trapping have some sort of challenge to them, whether its elements, the area in which you are hunting, distance, or danger of the game. Shooting the cat out of the tree isn't the "hard" part, its getting to that point. Now is it the "hardest" type of hunting? well that falls to each person, that may have been the hardest he/she had done.

[homersipes]

yeah thats a spooky feeling, I was followed for about a half mile through some dark timber, I veered out to go watch a meadow and he veered off and watched ME from a higher spot.  I headed back to camp and found his tracks in mine, so I followed them is how I know this lol.  Yeah I dont really see the fun or whatever out of shooting a big cat, same with coyote shooting although to each their own I gues 

[Ripsnort]

I've personally seen 2 cougar in our neighborhood (60 home platte, 1 acre lots, our lot is up against protected state land and Elk preserve) and 3 sighting reported in total the 17 years we've lived here in this house(foothills of the Cascades, WA state).

The last time we asked the game warden if I could shoot it if its in my backyard. He said 'if you deem it a threat, you can protect yourself' (We live in unincorporated Pierce County, discharging firearms is permitted) but in the same breath he said we need to call the game warden if we kill one.

He explained that when food sources are scarce (primarily rabbit around here) they tend to come up the game trails that the elk and deer use to access our neighborhood. (we live on a 700 ft plateau, below us is the White River Valley leading up to Mt.Rainier) Cougar also eat domestic cats (as do eagles that traverse between the river and the lake across the street) We have 0 stray domesticated cats due to coyote, cougar and eagles.

Another interesting thing he  said is that if you have a dog pooping  on the property (which we do) that coug tend to pick that scent up and give wide berth.
When my kids (now teens) are in the backyard practicing their sport (lacrosse) the dog is always back there with them.

This state tightened up the laws on hunting coug with dogs a few years ago and the population of coug really picked up, more attacks on hikers began happening, so they've changed the laws to loosen the laws up, you can now hunt coug with dogs in certain areas once again.

Would I personally hunt them? No desire to. I am a meat hunter, not a 'horn' hunter (trophy). If it doesn't taste good, I don't hunt it.

[VonMessa]

Nothing like being disappointed...

[Kuhn]

Nothing like being disappointed...

Yeah. I like the two legged ones.

[Rich46yo]

I remember when the tree huggers got hound hunting banned in CO.

The Mule deer hunting was already stressed due to habitat change and encroachments of white tail populations. Banning hound hunting of cats just drove Mulie populations into free fall. Many out fitters stopped taking hunters out for Mulies, which are a prime trophy to deer hunters.

Im talking cash to many poor communities, income to many wild life programs, food on the table for honest men and woman in the hunting business. Life styles that go back generations. Ever try and get a cat without hounds? Lotsa luck. Ive pulled an extra cat tag almost every time I went out west and the only time I ever saw one, even saw one, was a Tom standing over an Elk carcass. Which I declined to shoot.

Im talking big money being lost here to these communities. http://www.aws.vcn.com/mountain_lion_fact_sheet.html Not just in hunting revenues but also live stock loss.

While Ive never chased Lions behind dogs I can attest that there is no such thing as an easy hunt when you have to walk anywheres in such terrain.

Like any other animal their numbers have to be controlled and these decisions should be made logically by professional wild life managers. Not Walt Disney rejects who think just cause they can cast a vote they can bend natures laws their way.

LMAO, we had to shoot one in the city a few years back. Yeah he made his way down from the Dakotas following the streams and ended up by Wrigley Field where we cornered him and killed him about 10 mins before the streets would be filled with school kids OTW to school. You should have heard the out rage over the cat being put down.

[shotgunneeley]

Population control is just as viable of a reason to hunt as getting meat. Unmanaged populations can result in disease spread and food shortages that could lead to rising undesirable wildlife/urban encounters. We've had a severe coyote problem locally on our property (caught 60 on roughly 2 square miles of land over a period of 2 months). All of that hoopla had the deer, turkey, etc. moved out of the area. Wild hogs are a big problem too (only good from them is that they whack the snakes along with everything else).

I've never been cougar hunting but i'd imagine its like an extreme form of coon hunting with dogs. Meat may not be worth a flip, buts its needed all the same. Like its been said, probably the hardest part is just cornering the cat - still in a rough, mountaneous landscape not for the faint of heart. The AGFC says there are no cougars in Arkansas, but there has been reported sightings particularly in the Ouachita Mountains. One was hit by a car about 50 miles north of me.

[BluBerry]

No not that kind, that is fun.  

Here's what I don't get. Was watching the Outdoor channel, good programs, fine, I think we've already had the tree stand/feeding deer discussion so I won't go into that, but treeing big cats with dogs and calling it a hunt?

After watching the same 'ole deer programs, sheep hunts etc., the program goes into mtn lion hunting. Several on this certain program went as far as to say "some of the hardest" hunting you'll ever do. Now that is laughable. You find the scent with dogs, tree the cat, and shoot. What's hard?

I've hunted all my life after age ~8, I've on two occasions had the feeling I was being stalked by mtn lion, one was javelina hunting and another elk. Never could determine for sure with the javelina hunt, but on the elk, no doubt...big cat prints in snow that went everywhere I went; they weren't there before I started my hike into that area...Yet I've never felt compelled to hunt this elusive and potentially dangerous cat. I was asked once to kill a nuisance mtn lion (rancher was concerned for his kids) and said I would if I encountered it, never did though.

Hard is an otc bull elk hunt in CO on the 3rd of 3 otc hunts ~early Nov in cold temps, +1' of snow at elvations starting at 8000'. Those hunts have a success ratio of 8-12%. I have done about 8 of those in total and had very little success. There's a reason why they are called the ghosts of the black timber, not to be confused with the hormone raging elk in the rut that could care less about human presence other than if they think you're challenging their right to the harem.

So what's so hard about a mtn lion hunt using dogs? If these guys weren't using dogs, I'll buy that, but otherwise...I'm not saying anyone should not do it, to each their own, but hard? Not so much for able bodied persons.  

I'm a hunter myself, but as far as big cat hunting goes… I think that is one of the lamest forms of hunting. I'm down for people shooting a dangerous predator when they come across one for protection or land management. But having a bunch of dogs tree a big cat, and then sitting there just watching it hiss with hair raised as you wait to shoot it out of that tree.. well that's not hunting imo.

Also one of the gun magazines I get had a cat hunt in it, article was called "cats with kimbers" or something similar.. basically these "pro's" went out with hounds and Kimber pistols, and used handguns to shoot cats out of trees.

Then again I've always hated the pure trophy hunters, if you don't plan to eat it then don't plan to shoot it. ( again, dangerous predators that you come across out of happen stance are excluded.)

[morfiend]

 Go ahead and hunt the eastern cougar..... right there arent any left because they were wiped out by generations of tradition! passenger pigeons,same thing the list goes on and on,can I interest you in a pair of hands only used slightly by a young mountain gorillia to go to church!

  I'm not against hunting,I've done it myself but I dont anymore,I fish too but always catch and release. Ok I've been known to keep a couple small brookies for the pan but I think thats exceptable,you eat what you kill.  I could go on but will likely be accussed of watching too many Disney movies!



    

[mthrockmor]

Much different discussion when you live in lion country.

My in-laws hunt lions periodically. Those hunts that are edited down to 20 minutes due to commercials can go on for the entire day, or longer, cover 10-20 miles and go through the most rugged terrain the cat can find. You would amazed at how nimble dogs are in chasing lions. I dare say that most of the fat fighter pilots we have on this game wouldn't last an hour chasing the dogs. I've done it once, with my Dad who worked for division of wildlife, just short of 4 hours. The story was typically, and more demanding than any 25k road march in full gear I've even done.

Second, lions are not cute little Disney animals. They are designed from top to bottom to kill, eat and breed. Pound for pound they are the strongest of all cats, to include African lions, Siberian tigers, etc. An adult male lion will kill at least one deer a week, and that is just for food.

They also kill out of instinct. The worst thing you could ever do if confronted by a lion is to run. You might as well toss a ball and ask your dog to go play fetch. The lion's instincts will be to give chase and take you down. The kill will be nearly instantaneous. The lion my Dad needed to get was an average size male lion that had gotten into a pen of about 30 sheep. He outright killed about half of them, mangled to rest.

I remember about 20 years ago the environmentalists in California going nuts over two diametrically opposed issues: Lion hunts and Big Horn Sheep. After many years of their irrational behavior they seemingly won both victories. They all be ended the lion hunt in California; and, the California legislature appropriated millions of dollars to purchase from another state a large herd of Big Horn sheep and reintroduce them into a traditional habitat.

As this was going on those in the know (eg hunters who have been around lions) told the environmentalists and state wildlife biologists you couldn't have both lions and sheep. Of course bleeding hearts won, hunt stopped and millions spent on reintroducing the beautiful Big Horn. Within a few years the lions had decimated the Big Horn herds, again.

States have been very smart about managing the lion population. And while it may make limited sense to those outside of the arena, inside it makes perfect sense.

One final story. My Dad was part of a team that tagged and tracked a young female lion, about 75lbs. State biologists in small planes tracked the tag for months to see where the lion traveled. They noticed that this smallish lion stayed in one valley for about a week, so sent my Dad and a few others in on horseback to explore. What they found is that this small lion had taken down a 6-point bull elk, killed it and had been feeding on it for the week. A 6-point will likely come in at 700-800lbs. Out weighted 10-1 and killed it.

[Ripsnort]

75 lbs? That's a small cat.
The DNR estimated the size of one of the cougs we spotted(based prints left in the muddy ground) was 140 lbs. He said it was a male but not sure how he determined that. I was not looking at his junk when I saw the one hop the 6 ft neighbor fence, I was too busy going "HOLY CRAP!"  

[mbailey]

  if you don't plan to eat it then don't plan to shoot it. ( again, dangerous predators that you come across out of happen stance are excluded.)

Same here.....if I cant put it on my plate, i wont hunt it. THen again, i could hunt Bear here, but choose not to...no need imho.

Just how I was raised here in the eastern part of the country.....Im sure i would have a different opinion were I out west tho.

[VonMessa]

Same here.....if I cant put it on my plate, i wont hunt it. THen again, i could hunt Bear here, but choose not to...no need imho.

Just how I was raised here in the eastern part of the country.....Im sure i would have a different opinion were I out west tho.

I will eat the bear.  It will not go to waste.  Feel free.   

[morfiend]

Much different discussion when you live in lion country.

My in-laws hunt lions periodically. Those hunts that are edited down to 20 minutes due to commercials can go on for the entire day, or longer, cover 10-20 miles and go through the most rugged terrain the cat can find. You would amazed at how nimble dogs are in chasing lions. I dare say that most of the fat fighter pilots we have on this game wouldn't last an hour chasing the dogs. I've done it once, with my Dad who worked for division of wildlife, just short of 4 hours. The story was typically, and more demanding than any 25k road march in full gear I've even done.

Second, lions are not cute little Disney animals. They are designed from top to bottom to kill, eat and breed. Pound for pound they are the strongest of all cats, to include African lions, Siberian tigers, etc. An adult male lion will kill at least one deer a week, and that is just for food.

They also kill out of instinct. The worst thing you could ever do if confronted by a lion is to run. You might as well toss a ball and ask your dog to go play fetch. The lion's instincts will be to give chase and take you down. The kill will be nearly instantaneous. The lion my Dad needed to get was an average size male lion that had gotten into a pen of about 30 sheep. He outright killed about half of them, mangled to rest.

I remember about 20 years ago the environmentalists in California going nuts over two diametrically opposed issues: Lion hunts and Big Horn Sheep. After many years of their irrational behavior they seemingly won both victories. They all be ended the lion hunt in California; and, the California legislature appropriated millions of dollars to purchase from another state a large herd of Big Horn sheep and reintroduce them into a traditional habitat.

As this was going on those in the know (eg hunters who have been around lions) told the environmentalists and state wildlife biologists you couldn't have both lions and sheep. Of course bleeding hearts won, hunt stopped and millions spent on reintroducing the beautiful Big Horn. Within a few years the lions had decimated the Big Horn herds, again.

States have been very smart about managing the lion population. And while it may make limited sense to those outside of the arena, inside it makes perfect sense.

One final story. My Dad was part of a team that tagged and tracked a young female lion, about 75lbs. State biologists in small planes tracked the tag for months to see where the lion traveled. They noticed that this smallish lion stayed in one valley for about a week, so sent my Dad and a few others in on horseback to explore. What they found is that this small lion had taken down a 6-point bull elk, killed it and had been feeding on it for the week. A 6-point will likely come in at 700-800lbs. Out weighted 10-1 and killed it.

  Boo, I understand and I'm not against the removal of a problem animal for safety reasons but to complain about regulations or that you cant hunt in a certain "style" is just beyond me!

  I live in Canada,hunting and fishing was and is a way of life,I dont have the need but I understand others do and should be allowed to continue but within reasons. I sure dont like trophy hunters and yes I know they spend cash and money makes the world go around but I prefer my trophies to be pix and let the animal be.

  Where I live we are over run with deer,and thats because they have no predators to cull the herds.Then they become a problem and it has to be dealt with,ok but why is it problem? Because we killed all the predators!