Author Topic: Harden the Ordnance Bunkers  (Read 1355 times)

Offline Aspen

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Re: Harden the Ordnance Bunkers
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2014, 09:37:40 AM »
For me, the 5" are way deadlier in close but I feel like I do better in the 88 at longer ranges because I can see each detonation and adjust lead.
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Offline waystin2

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Re: Harden the Ordnance Bunkers
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2014, 10:07:40 AM »
I am not sure I like the idea of proximity fused guns at an airfield.   :headscratch:
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Offline Tinkles

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Re: Harden the Ordnance Bunkers
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2014, 11:57:43 AM »
It is always pointing north by default. Simply giving the 88 it's (RL) ability to traverse in high gear should be very helpful

I really, really abhorr the thought of having proximity fused manned AA guns on land bases.




Agreed, I don't want any proximity fused weapons on bases, it takes the challenge away. I am fine with proximity fuses for 5in on naval vessels, but not for base guns.

+1 for the hardened ordnance bunkers though.   :salute
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Offline Tinkles

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Re: Harden the Ordnance Bunkers
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2014, 11:59:38 AM »
For me, the 5" are way deadlier in close but I feel like I do better in the 88 at longer ranges because I can see each detonation and adjust lead.

If you get the hang of the trajectory, when a 5in round 'explodes' it means you are really close/dead on. Making getting kills extremely easy when you know what you are doing. However, with the 88 you have to know when to fire, the length of time it takes the round to explode at the range you want it to go off at, and where the plane will be when that round explodes. With the 5in it's literally point and click.

 :salute
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Harden the Ordnance Bunkers
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2014, 12:18:25 PM »
The VT fuzed AAA ammunition wasn't used in the ETO until near the very end of hostilities and in very limited quantities.  Eisenhower feared the technology falling into enemy hands.



Only over land in Europe, otherwise it was in use on navy warships patrolling the Atlantic.

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« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 12:20:07 PM by Ack-Ack »
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Offline -ammo-

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Re: Harden the Ordnance Bunkers
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2014, 12:30:24 PM »
Only over land in Europe, otherwise it was in use on navy warships patrolling the Atlantic.

ack-ack

Agreed, thanks for the clarification.  I think the Germans would have a difficult time recovering a fuze from the Atlantic and likely weighed in on the decision.
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Harden the Ordnance Bunkers
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2014, 12:35:27 PM »
Many WWII bases didn't have bunkers... They had ordnance dumps, arrayed around a base at a safe distance. In some cases, the dumps were more than a mile from the airfield. Different sized bombs in different dumps. They were usually heavily netted and camouflaged. Where bunkers were constructed, they were usually made from cast reinforced concrete, and then covered with earth to hide them from view. When the 9th AF fighters moved to France in July of 1944, they would store ordnance in barns, in the woods or anywhere else easily hidden from aerial view.

Having the dumps hidden obviously won't work in the game. So, if everyone knows where the ordnance is, it seems that the bunkers should be hardened to make it difficult to blow up as an offset to being hidden.

Another thing to keep in mind. Hardening the bunkers may have a significant affect on game play. Today, any three day noob can take a 190A-8 and kill the ordnance at three airfields with guns alone. The impact on game play is substantial. If each bunker required 2,000 lb of bombs to kill, a single fighter would be hard pressed to be able to kill more than one per reload. Bump it up to VH hardness and you'll need bombs and rockets to kill one bunker, assuming perfect aim. What this does, is eliminate the griefers porking ordnance, simply because they want to have a negative impact on the game.  

One more thing... When dumps do explode, it might be interesting to define a blast radius of, say, 200 and 600 yards. Anything flying within 200 yards is blown up. Anything within 600 yards takes random damage (regardless if being friend or foe). With that in mind, shouldn't rearm pads be at risk? Obviously, there's ordnance there.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 12:47:17 PM by Widewing »
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Offline Randy1

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Re: Harden the Ordnance Bunkers
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2014, 01:14:30 PM »
You could throw the Radar in with this wish as well.  Push it up out of a single MG-Canon pass.

I would not be totally against 2000 pound ord destruction rating.  I would be more for  a rating that would take a thousand pound'er and say 3 US rockets.  That would take two good passes to take out the ords on a small field.

With the radar upped to say 600 pounds a P47 heavy could  take out the radar, and both ammo bunkers with three perfect passes.  Quite a challenge.




Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Harden the Ordnance Bunkers
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2014, 01:44:06 PM »
I think the Germans would have a difficult time recovering a fuze from the Atlantic and likely weighed in on the decision.

That's exactly why it was used on navy ships before land forces got their grubby hands on them. 

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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Harden the Ordnance Bunkers
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2014, 01:49:54 PM »
You could throw the Radar in with this wish as well.  Push it up out of a single MG-Canon pass.

I would not be totally against 2000 pound ord destruction rating.  I would be more for  a rating that would take a thousand pound'er and say 3 US rockets.  That would take two good passes to take out the ords on a small field.

With the radar upped to say 600 pounds a P47 heavy could  take out the radar, and both ammo bunkers with three perfect passes.  Quite a challenge.


Why should radar be hardened?  This is a picture of some of the Chain Home (CH) radar towers, as you can see a strafing airplane would be able to take one out or with even a small bomb like a 250lb bomb. 


There is no reason to make the radar more tough than it is currently.

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Offline bangsbox

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Re: Harden the Ordnance Bunkers
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2014, 11:35:22 PM »
I'm fine with hardening ords bunker if there were less of them and it took at least a 2k of damage to kill. As for prox fuse on on air fields and VBs; only if there was only one on either. Anymore would be nuts considering how many 88s a field has now and they don't have ProxFuse. 1 prox 2-3 88s for a large airfield wouldn't be bad idea. The 88s are for the must part not used now (though if that faster gear thing was implemented that probably would change).
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 11:40:46 PM by bangsbox »

Offline BnZs

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Re: Harden the Ordnance Bunkers
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2014, 09:14:05 AM »
-1 to the fused AA guns on a base . If they will be anything close to the navy 5" guns it will be a nightmare. we want to promote air combat, not having players in groung guns pointing and clicking.

I with there was a way to make proxy fuses in the game work *only* when near bombers and other ords trucks. Then the gunners could defend the CV/hangars better but not interfere in the dogfight.
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Offline JimmyD3

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Re: Harden the Ordnance Bunkers
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2014, 11:44:41 AM »
+1 on the Ord bunkers, nothing short of 2000 lbs to take them out. As to the number at each base, 2, 3, 4. While we're at it add an additional VH at each base for a total of 2 at all bases except VBases. :bolt:
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Offline Lab Rat 3947

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Re: Harden the Ordnance Bunkers
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2014, 03:32:57 PM »
Quote
Another thing to keep in mind. Hardening the bunkers may have a significant affect on game play. Today, any three day noob can take a 190A-8 and kill the ordnance at three airfields with guns alone. The impact on game play is substantial. If each bunker required 2,000 lb of bombs to kill, a single fighter would be hard pressed to be able to kill more than one per reload. Bump it up to VH hardness and you'll need bombs and rockets to kill one bunker, assuming perfect aim. What this does, is eliminate the griefers porking ordnance, simply because they want to have a negative impact on the game. 

One more thing... When dumps do explode, it might be interesting to define a blast radius of, say, 200 and 600 yards. 200 Anything flying within yards is blown up. Anything within 600 yards takes random damage (regardless if being friend or foe). With that in mind, shouldn't rearm pads be at risk? Obviously, there's ordnance there.[/quote]

 :aok +1     :old:


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Offline caldera

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Re: Harden the Ordnance Bunkers
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2014, 04:28:27 PM »
Why should radar be hardened?  This is a picture of some of the Chain Home (CH) radar towers, as you can see a strafing airplane would be able to take one out or with even a small bomb like a 250lb bomb. 
(Image removed from quote.)

There is no reason to make the radar more tough than it is currently.

ack-ack

AH fighter hangars look like the type of construction that wouldn't stand up to a few .303s, yet take almost 3,000 pounds to take down.
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