How the hell do you do that?

[gatt]

Looks like no one of the wizards wants to explain us the maneuver. Interesting, indeed  

[Wanker]

Hangtime said

I'm betting yer seeing a snap-wingover.. you'll never see a guy UNDER you pull this off.. it happens when you chase a guy UP.. he's above you, and you are closing the gap.

Actually, everytime I've seen this, we were both in either a shallow dive, or level. Haven't seen this at all when chasing a climbing con.

[Suave1]

It's pretty bad when the response of most of the regular players when they see a typhoon doing flip flop warp toejam is "hey there goes ManedeW" .

[Nash]

Why are all these old threads getting punted for seemingly no reason?

[gatt]

Probably becouse the thing still happens ...

[Voss]

After flying a few sorties I recognize this for what it is. At 2-3k range (if it is yards) you are looking at over a miles distance. At that range the short distance it takes to turn an aircraft appears very small indeed.

If it's feet instead, you still suffer from the distance squashing the offset, but to a lesser degree.

Simple really.

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Voss
13th TAS

[This message has been edited by Voss (edited 04-03-2001).]

[Spatula]

 

Originally posted by Suave1:
It's pretty bad when the response of most of the regular players when they see a typhoon doing flip flop warp toejam is "hey there goes ManedeW" .

I dont know what the fuss with Manedew is, i wing with him quite a bit and never seen him do anything questionable, and i spend more time close to him in flight than probably all the enemies he shot down for the last 2 or 3 tours combined.

There seems to be the 'urban myth' (for a lack better words) about manedew's flying style. The truth is, he does things (legitimate moves) in a typhie you certainly wouldnt expect a typh pilot to do, and thats where he catches people out  

[StSanta]

heh, no.

90% of the time when i've been on his six, i've been able to tell that it's him. Hard pushes on stick, slight roll, hard pullup, slight roll, hard pushdown, roll, sharp turn, scissors with pushdowns on stick.

It's an effective set of maneuvers (although I'd wager to guess that in real life, the excessive negative g forces would shred the blood vessels in your eyes) but also quite telling; not many do it like that.

With just the slighest bad connection for me or him, it looks like flip flopping.

So, from an opponents POV, I have to say there is a reason he is known for it and that this distinct style is easily spotted.

have you spent much time on his six trying to get a shot Spatula? I've noticed that winging with someone and being engaged offensively with the same person is quite different.

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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 04-03-2001).]

[gatt]

Honestly, I have a good connection, and it is weird indeed to watch a 180deg change of direction without (or with minimal) vertical/lateral separation. A 4,500 Kg fighter at 350mph TAS and 1,500yds ahead of you should always have some turn radius. And the pursuer should be able to notice when the pursued is maneuvering, *before* the HO merge. Sometimes it happens so quickly that you cannot help thinking about something wrong.

I guess it is a net-lag, graphical issue. What I am sure about is that some players are able to game the game. Not a big problem, actually. But it is one of the few things I cant get used to.




[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 04-03-2001).]

[Suave1]

After re-reading my post I realized that it sounded kind of harsh . Manedew isn't so much to blame, he is just capitalizing on a flaw in the game . Other people know how to do this move and have reproduced it for me. And for whatever reason, the plane flip flops around instantaneously and comes out of the maneuver going a different direction . I hope there is way that the good people at HTC can correct this . Getting back to the original subject of this thread I've only had an f4u change direction 180 degrees without so much as a silhouette change while I was running it down 900yrds on its six one time back when 1.05 first came out .

[Lephturn]

I've never seen this.  I'd love to see a film of it.

------------------
Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer

A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com

Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome for AH articles and training info!

[Westy]

 It's not distinct, it's not a definable personal style.  I see it done by a lot of "LW orientated personality" pilots. Mostly 190 pilots and even a couple of 109 drivers.

 It's as "gaming the game" as much as car bombs and flying off the map. Utilising the net lag and delay to confuse an  enemy on another computer screen many miles away.

 That being said nine times out of ten when I this it's because the bogy is desperate and in it's death throws. It's oinly a matter of minutes before I shoot him down. The only time I have not is because I've run out of ammo. It works not as an egressing typ of manuever, it works as "waste ammo"  inducing maneuver.

 Hold your fire. let em flop and pop em when they level out a bit - which they must do sooner or later.

-Westy


[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 04-03-2001).]

[StSanta]

Westy, you calling me a liar?  .

It's very distinct this. I know when I meet maendew in a dogfight just as I know when i face NathBDP's tiffie . nath uses some techniques easily might force an overshoot in some cases, and combine it with techniques that'll mean you lose yer advantage if you do not push it.

LW personalities? We want names. How else can we compare experiences?

------------------
Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

[Westy]

 Not calling anyone a liar. I'm saying I've seen the same thing. I just throttle back slighty and wait till the retarded snoopy dance is done and fire  

 Names? You know who they are.    Alot of them had the habit from WB's or heard of it being done in WB's and have tried to make it successful here too.

 As for the sudden reversal of aircraft. I grew tired of agreeing and arguging with folks that there was that  "odd" capability  a long time ago. Yeager did too.

     -Westy

[Mk10 225th]

Stick-jerking is the reason I quit playing the cheap seats in WarBirds.

I call it "UFO'ing."

I agree with Westy on how to handle it, it's just annoying when someone on the alien's side is shooting at you from behind, and you know you would have shot the dude down if his plane wasn't gyrating in front of you.

It also is a red flag as to folks who really don't know how to fly.

If you see someone doing it, just politely say, "No UFO's here, please."

If they act like they don't understand, we just say, "The stick-jerking that's causing spikes, that in turn makes your plane gyrate as if your flight suit were full of bees."

Mk