Author Topic: Everything with 20mm  (Read 1823 times)

Offline ReVo

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Re: Everything with 20mm
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2014, 03:25:56 PM »
And how many P-51B's do you see?  Yeah, almost none.

Everybody flies the D because it's harder to run from 20k to your ack after one pass in a B model.   :bolt:
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Offline BluBerry

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Re: Everything with 20mm
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2014, 03:28:18 PM »
I always thought it was because its a bit like bra size, people always assume the last letter is better.

Offline Arlo

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Re: Everything with 20mm
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2014, 03:29:55 PM »
I always thought it was because its a bit like bra size, people always assume the last letter is better.

P51 with dual G drops? (Drops would be the key woid.)

Offline BnZs

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Re: Everything with 20mm
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2014, 04:14:57 PM »
And how many P-51B's do you see?  Yeah, almost none.

Well in the LWMA you have the P-51D, the P-47M, and the 190D9, similar performing planes with more punch. But you used to see the P-51B fairly frequently in the Mid War Arena, back a few years ago when it was the best arena we had going and not the milk-running bombers arena it is today.  :salute

It's a little insane they didn't equip the P-51 with two Hispanos as its gun package back then though, that would have made the plane lighter and left it still at least as lethal.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline ReVo

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Re: Everything with 20mm
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2014, 04:15:04 PM »
I just had the greatest idea.. Storch with a single 20mm.  :t
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Offline bustr

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Re: Everything with 20mm
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2014, 05:38:08 PM »
At least Arlo is doing this in a classy "tongue in cheek" way.

1. - Since the damage area was reduced to the silhouette of the target, complaints about kills with the MG have been on the rise.

Many other contributing factors impact MG gunnery. Hitech has introduced the historic 1200ft effective range. Many players never really develop the skill to hold MG on target long enough. Many players don't really understand refining their controllers to eliminate bounce and jitter which introduce dispersion to their MG gunnery. Players don't understand how to turn off processes before logging onto the server to reduce CPU congestion. Some players don't understand how to aim in an air combat environment along with any ACM skill.

The upshot is the MG is a canary in the coal mine to your deficiencies related to gunnery and ACM. Where the 20mm is like a blind hog can always find an acorn.

2. - Observations that the easy mode killing ability of the 20mm is driving game play and ride selection. The 20mm is more like the old days of the game's hit modeling and it's ability to reward even the newer players with kills.

The AAF reviewed 701 combat films that resulted in the destruction of 186 german planes. Of the 701 pilots, 39% of those pilots shot down the 186 planes. All 39% of those pilots had one thing in common. The were firing inside of 1200ft. It has been observed that the Germans went with cannons precisely for the "bling hog will get an acorn" reason. And why the spitfire family is so successful in the game for new players.

I suspect as is, to increase the lethality of each 50 cal impact would increase the overall lethality of all rounds against aircraft. That would become rather gamey over night, along with unrealistic kills at will out to 1000yds like the very early years of our game because of how hits were determined by the program.

Offline the 50 cal works as specified in the WW2 gunnery manuals. But, online players are not compliant drones and the internet and our game equipment hates us all. So the real question becomes, are you requesting Hitech fudge the 50 cal so you don't have to work as hard at using it? Even though you are all proud to point to Aces High for it's physics realism versus the gamey aspects of all the other competitors.

All the AAF non-38 aces shot inside of 1200ft knowing the limitations of the AN\M2. And our P47\P51 top players are fitting the AAF numbers of who killed the 189 planes out of 701 pilots. Sooo, Aces High Thunder and an xBox controller anyone.......piu, piu, piu...... :joystick:   
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Arlo

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Re: Everything with 20mm
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2014, 06:39:25 PM »
At least Arlo is doing this in a classy "tongue in cheek" way.

When have I not?  :D

Offline BnZs

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Re: Everything with 20mm
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2014, 01:34:31 AM »


Many other contributing factors impact MG gunnery. Hitech has introduced the historic 1200ft effective range. Many players never really develop the skill to hold MG on target long enough. Many players don't really understand refining their controllers to eliminate bounce and jitter which introduce dispersion to their MG gunnery.


Explain how to do this please.


Also, I almost never shoot outside of 400 yards. I feel like the main place where .50s are frustrating for me and a lot of other players is actually close in snap-shots where the opponent is flat scissoring back and forth or the like. On the planform deflection shot the .50s indeed maim and kill.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Banshee7

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Re: Everything with 20mm
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2014, 08:40:57 AM »
I just had the greatest idea.. Storch with a single 20mm.  :t

Hmmmm....now this is an idea!  Storch duel anyone?!  :joystick:
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Offline matt

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Re: Everything with 20mm
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2014, 09:45:15 AM »
+1 for 5  days

Offline save

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Re: Everything with 20mm
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2014, 01:56:34 PM »
That is probably true at short distance, explosive rounds probably do more damage at longer range than the 6*50.


Wimps...the 50 cal is just fine. Even those who 'spray and pray' have a chance. For those who can aim worth anything they kill just fine.

(Full disclosure: I fly the 190A5, which has the 20mm and bb shooters. I strongly suspect the 2x20mm/2x.303 loadout is not much more weight/volume on target than 6x0.50 of the PonyD, which has a higher rate of fire.)
My ammo last for 6 Lancasters, or one Yak3.
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Offline bustr

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Re: Everything with 20mm
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2014, 05:39:29 PM »
Explain how to do this please.


Also, I almost never shoot outside of 400 yards. I feel like the main place where .50s are frustrating for me and a lot of other players is actually close in snap-shots where the opponent is flat scissoring back and forth or the like. On the planform deflection shot the .50s indeed maim and kill.

If you test this offline where the drones are cooperating with our gunnery using the LCG green cross to help you aim. You will find, unless you aim your AN\M2 stream through the canopy, the drone fly's on with about the same damage you see in the MA. WW2 gunnery training for American pilots expected shooting to happen from the rear quarters. Not for their pilots to show off their close in air show aerobatics skills with an enemy trying to kill them. It was stressed during training, that shooting from the rear quarters would result in the longest firing time to enable getting enough AN\M2 rounds into the enemy to be useful. Crossing shots and scissoring snap shots defeats the AN\M2's strength by limiting the numbers of rounds possible on target. 20mm require fewer, so achieve better results in the MA during crossing snap shots. Blind hog finding acorns approach.   
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline XxDaSTaRxx

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Re: Everything with 20mm
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2014, 05:45:29 PM »
I'll take a B-17G with twenty mils!

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Offline BnZs

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Re: Everything with 20mm
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2014, 05:50:39 PM »
Shooting from dead six is often unpossible against a resisting opponent, especially if a relative maneverability advantage on their part forces the use of energy tactics.
If you test this offline where the drones are cooperating with our gunnery using the LCG green cross to help you aim. You will find, unless you aim your AN\M2 stream through the canopy, the drone fly's on with about the same damage you see in the MA. WW2 gunnery training for American pilots expected shooting to happen from the rear quarters. Not for their pilots to show off their close in air show aerobatics skills with an enemy trying to kill them. It was stressed during training, that shooting from the rear quarters would result in the longest firing time to enable getting enough AN\M2 rounds into the enemy to be useful. Crossing shots and scissoring snap shots defeats the AN\M2's strength by limiting the numbers of rounds possible on target. 20mm require fewer, so achieve better results in the MA during crossing snap shots. Blind hog finding acorns approach.   
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline bustr

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Re: Everything with 20mm
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2014, 06:15:39 PM »
Sounds like you want Hitech to make the AN\M2 gamey to work in an ACM environment which historically didn't happen as the rule to which the gun platform was designed to.

In our game you are being ACM defeated by not enough time on target to utilize the AN\M2's strength. Would you complain like this flying the C.202 or I16 Type27? Even with them you are constrained by not enough time on target during our ACM dancing with the stars ridiculousness. Or haven't you noticed most of the muppets historically fly cannon armed fighters even though they make sure to let everyone know about their ACM prowess in everything.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.