Ready for the P-47D15-23 series

[Seadog36]

May 1945~ still chugging along in the Philippines. This P-47D 21 of the 58th FG was later loaned to the 201st Mexican Fighter Squadron in May of 1945

[Tank-Ace]

Unless its got different performance than the D-11 or D-25, I say not now. Just no need for it when there are still aircraft that would genuinely provide something new.

[Seadog36]

That explains why P-47s are intentionally left out of AvA setups where they belong or the wrong type is inserted to justify some uber axis ride.
The D-23 is precisely what in needed to add some semblance of historical accuracy to  AvA, scenarios, FSO and other events. You can't have an accurate WWII sim without the most prevalent type of 47. The addition doesn't require the same amount of resources as a completely new type which has been exhaustively discussed in the thread.

l expected better from you Jager, especially with your involvement in what could be the best arena in AH. If you read the thread, you would know it does have a better climb rate and is more stable than both the D-11 or 25 in addition to having full jabo capability.

[Fish42]

That explains why P-47s are intentionally left out of AvA setups where they belong or the wrong type is inserted to justify some uber axis ride.
The D-23 is precisely what in needed to add some semblance of historical accuracy to  AvA, scenarios, FSO and other events. You can't have an accurate WWII sim without the most prevalent type of 47. The addition doesn't require the same amount of resources as a completely new type which has been exhaustively discussed in the thread.

l expected better from you Jager, especially with your involvement in what could be the best arena in AH. If you read the thread, you would know it does have a better climb rate and is more stable than both the D-11 or 25 in addition to having full jabo capability.

 

Yes because subbing a typhoon for a Beau is fine but not a P-47 D25 for a P-47 D23. Or a TBM for a TBD.

The performance differences between the D-25 and D-23 are not that great. Only a hardcore Jug rider would be able to tell the difference in game.

It is obvious that you really want the D-23, but you are not willing to see the very small benefit adding it would bring. In a few years when they are refreshing the older 2.0 models, then the option to add a new version of the Jug can be explored.

We are still missing planes that saw high use and were made in large numbers that don't even have one model in this game.

[Karnak]

That explains why P-47s are intentionally left out of AvA setups where they belong or the wrong type is inserted to justify some uber axis ride.
The D-23 is precisely what in needed to add some semblance of historical accuracy to  AvA, scenarios, FSO and other events. You can't have an accurate WWII sim without the most prevalent type of 47. The addition doesn't require the same amount of resources as a completely new type which has been exhaustively discussed in the thread.

l expected better from you Jager, especially with your involvement in what could be the best arena in AH. If you read the thread, you would know it does have a better climb rate and is more stable than both the D-11 or 25 in addition to having full jabo capability.

That is exactly opposite of how they misuse the Spitfire line in the AvA.  With Spitfires they either use the wrong one for "balance" reasons (make sure the Luftwaffe is dominant?) or through willful ignorance of Spitfire history (because it is a dweeby, MA plane that nobody serious could possibly like?).  This results in the regular use of the 1942 Spitfire F.Mk IX in 1944 or 1945 settings where the Spitfire Mk XVI ought to be used as the mainstay Spitfire at those times was, in reality, the Spitfire LF.Mk IX running on 150 octane.  Our Spitfire Mk XVI is actually a Spitfire LF.Mk IX running on 100 octane based on its performance numbers, but Spitfire Mk XVIs were also common in 1944 and 1945.

It surprises me that they insist on exact P-47 models with subtle differences while ignoring massive and blatant differences in Spitfires to use whichever they want to.  If they are willing to use a +15lbs boost, Merlin 61 Spitfire Mk IX from 1942 when, at the very least, they ought to use the clipped wing, +18lbs boost Merlin 66 powered Spitfire Mk XVI I am really surprised they won't use the P-47D-25 in place of the P-47D-23 given how close their capabilities are.

[Seadog36]

I mistook Jager for Jaeger1 who heads up lots of AvA activities. My apologies to Jaeger1, he has always been a gentleman and I applaud his efforts even thought I often have reservations with the plane sets that he is not necessarily responsible for. This thread is not meant to be an ultimatum on AvA, which has the potential to be the best arena in the game. I am mystified by the popularity of the MA vs AvA.

Fish42, I am all for adding the Beau and other worthy examples, but those projects are a whole order of magnitude more complex than reworking an existing type.

[BFOOT1]

In simplistic terms, it is my opinion that it was the P-47 that broke the back of the Luftwaffe in the west.  The Spitfire held the line against the Luftwaffe then the P-47 broke the Luftwaffe's back in the west and then the P-51 mopped up.
There are likely many reasons that combine for to cause that.  Availability probably played a large role in what fighter they got for Saving Private Ryan.  The Tuskegee did fly P-51s, so that is only fair.  If we ever got a movie about the 56th Fighter Group we'd get to see some P-47s.


Edit:

I want to add another note about my stance on the P-47D-23.  I don't oppose the addition of the P-47D-23 at this time for the same reasons I oppose the Mustang Mk Ia or cannon armed A-20G.  Unlike those requests the request for the P-47D-23 would have no negative effect on the game.  Our disagreement is merely about the value of the developer time spent on it.  You are asking for a reasonable and appropriate aircraft, not something to be dweeby with that you only want because it seems powerful.  You want it because of its history and role and I respect that.

I completely agree with you Karnak. I got into an argument with a kid in a different forum about P-47's and P-51's and he tried to tell me that the P-51 was the real hero in the West. He also tried to tell me that P-47's never went to Berlin. I threw some 56th FG AAR's in his face, some peoples ignorance kills me.

[jimson]

That is exactly opposite of how they misuse the Spitfire line in the AvA.  With Spitfires they either use the wrong one for "balance" reasons (make sure the Luftwaffe is dominant?) or through willful ignorance of Spitfire history (because it is a dweeby, MA plane that nobody serious could possibly like?)

Honestly dude. this crap get's really old. There is no doubt that you have more specific knowledge of WWII equipment than most, including us, and yes, sometimes we aren't real anal in planeset accuracy.

One reason why people prefer MA is because they never have to deal with a disadvantage that may be historically accurate. It's hard enought to get people to fly limited planes without putting them up against nothing but Spit 16's. If we could enable finite numbers of planes etc it would be better because when we include unlimited late model spits, that is about the only thing that will be flown on that side.

I realize you find it more satisfying to acscribe selfish and nefarious motives to us, but in reality, whether we get it right or wrong, our only motive is to attempt to make it fun for both sides.

[Karnak]

jimson,

From your perspective creating setups for the AvA, how useful would the P-47D-23 be?  Would it enable any settings that you can't do now?  If so, why would the P-47D-25 not be a suitable stand in?

[-ammo-]

From a pure performance perspective, the D21 would be the best performing Razorback.  It came standard with the paddle blade prop and had less fuel capacity than the D23.  I read that the D23 was fitted with a higher capacity internal fuel tank allowing for an additional 75 gallons.

But that is not Seadog's argument, even though the D21 had comparable production numbers to the D23.

[jimson]

jimson,

From your perspective creating setups for the AvA, hhow useful would the P-47D-23 be?  Would it enable any settings that you can't do now?  If so, why would the P-47D-25 not be a suitable stand in?

I don't really get hung up too much on correct sub variants, so in this case I would agree that it would be an acceptable sub.

[bozon]

It does not matter how it performs relative to the D25. They look different and that does matter to me and some others. The model that looks like it, the D11 does perform considerably different.

Nobody says that a D21/23 will revolutionalize AH. Immersion is important and this is why a D25 is not the same as D23 razorback. Resource wise it is not a huge project to add it, so it does not come at the expense of an entirely new model.

[Karnak]

It does not matter how it performs relative to the D25. They look different and that does matter to me and some others. The model that looks like it, the D11 does perform considerably different.

Nobody says that a D21/23 will revolutionalize AH. Immersion is important and this is why a D25 is not the same as D23 razorback. Resource wise it is not a huge project to add it, so it does not come at the expense of an entirely new model.

That can be said of many other units that would also fill significant gaps.

Nobody, so far as I know, is saying the D-21 or D-23 shouldn't be added, we're just saying it is a pretty low priority on the scale of things.

[-ammo-]

That can be said of many other units that would also fill significant gaps.

Nobody, so far as I know, is saying the D-21 or D-23 shouldn't be added, we're just saying it is a pretty low priority on the scale of things.

Priority is of course, subjective to the individual.  And who is "we're"; mouse in your pocket?  "We're" can be applied to the proponents of the D21/23 as well.

We want what we want and lobby all the same.  

I would love to see you back in the MA where you can enjoy this sim.

[Tank-Ace]

Priority is of course, subjective to the individual.  And who is "we're"; mouse in your pocket?  "We're" can be applied to the proponents of the D21/23 as well.

We want what we want and lobby all the same.  

I would love to see you back in the MA where you can enjoy this sim.

I'm agreeing with him, and I'm willing to bet *most* of the community would agree with us as well.