Author Topic: tank main gun shooting planes down.  (Read 9843 times)

Offline pervert

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #150 on: April 07, 2014, 12:56:06 PM »
Any model of T34 are tough for a Stuka, I usually find the best way is to hit the top hatch on the turret in a near vertical dive, a WW1 classic immelmann being the set up, I doubt it was done this way in RL as there is a big danger of pancaking the plane, maybe why its wheels stay out though  :D

Offline TEShaw

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #151 on: April 07, 2014, 01:25:02 PM »
Gunsights are the same as reality to a one-eyed man.

Sorry to go a bit off topic, and maybe someone noticed this before.


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Offline Volron

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #152 on: April 07, 2014, 01:42:36 PM »
Any model of T34 are tough for a Stuka, I usually find the best way is to hit the top hatch on the turret in a near vertical dive, a WW1 classic immelmann being the set up, I doubt it was done this way in RL as there is a big danger of pancaking the plane, maybe why its wheels stay out though  :D

IF I want to risk getting main gunned, the the standard attack pattern will work oh so nicely.  Problem though, as mentioned, is it puts you WELL with in traversal range of the main gun.  I still find that sweet spot behind the turret, front of the engine, does nicely when coming in high. :)
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Offline Lusche

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #153 on: April 07, 2014, 01:44:01 PM »
Illustration:

The following picture, drawn to scale shows a Hs 129 in a 30° dive about 55m (180ft) distance. 45m would be about one full plane length further down that path. The trees have approximately the height of our AH cartoon world trees.

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Offline Megalodon

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #154 on: April 07, 2014, 02:00:29 PM »
Illustration:

The following picture, drawn to scale shows a Hs 129 in a 30° dive about 55m (180ft) distance. 45m would be about one full plane length further down that path. The trees have approximately the height of our AH cartoon world trees.

(Image removed from quote.)

The trees are easily half the kills on me.. :lol


 Getting them in the trees is half the fun sometimes it takes me 5-6 passes just to find a tiny little gap where I can see just a portion of the tank hiding in the trees .... you have to really snip them.

Fun stuff,

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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #155 on: April 07, 2014, 02:08:20 PM »
See rule #4
« Last Edit: April 07, 2014, 04:05:45 PM by hitech »
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Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #156 on: April 07, 2014, 02:08:39 PM »
Is there data about the max turret elevation of Pz/T34/JPZ and all the stuff that's shooting at canon attack planes?
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Offline Lusche

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #157 on: April 07, 2014, 02:11:54 PM »
Is there data about the max turret elevation of Pz/T34/JPZ and all the stuff that's shooting at canon attack planes?


Go to http://www.tarrif.net/

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Offline dirtdart

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #158 on: April 07, 2014, 03:24:21 PM »
For quote of a rule #4
« Last Edit: April 07, 2014, 04:06:10 PM by hitech »
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Offline danny76

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #159 on: April 07, 2014, 03:36:46 PM »
Any model of T34 are tough for a Stuka, I usually find the best way is to hit the top hatch on the turret in a near vertical dive, a WW1 classic immelmann being the set up, I doubt it was done this way in RL as there is a big danger of pancaking the plane, maybe why its wheels stay out though  :D

I can't even see the top hatch, if I could I certainly wouldn't have the time to line up a shot and then pull out. Perpetually baffled by posts like this.

E.g. "hit between the turret and hull"???? Really, I can barely make out the model of tank :bhead
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Offline bustr

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #160 on: April 07, 2014, 06:14:09 PM »

you tell us how an airplane can fire at a tank, and pull out of a 30 degree dive from 50 meters away.


Try it offline with the Ju87. It was the only way I could make a one shot kill on both T-34. I followed the tactics developed by the end of 1943. It was the only way the Hs129 and Ju87 pilots could find to make the carbide core rounds penetrate the T-34 armor. Carbide was in short supply so these units had to come up with a way to make one pass kills.

In my offline testing I rammed one tank and snapped my tail off on another. Just like the memoirs of the german pilots described happened to some. I was forced just like the WW2 pilots to make a straight approach run so I could time my 30 degree dive, shoot, and pull out. In our game as it is, the computer aided tank commander will kill almost every Ju87 that tries this. The Russians by the time this tactic was developed, were throwing hundreds of tanks into battle with more available ammo than the germans. All Russian tank units knew the tactic the Hs129 and Ju87 would use when attacking them. So why didn't they just rotate the turret and blow the Hs129 and Ju87 out of the air point blank like we do?

If the forum members taking screen captures from the 300 page book that I've been referencing would put up a download link, it has all of the info. They lost Hs129 and Ju87 pilots to miscalculating their pull up. The german unit commander who finally developed the shooting inside of 100m tactic, when teaching the tactic during a demonstration against a captured T-34. Miscalculated his pull up, snapped his tail off and got shipped home in a small wooden box. But, it was the only way to make the carbide rounds pass through the T-34 and other tank's armor to kill the crew or the engine.

The NS-37 AP round doesn't have carbide as the core, so cannot penetrate T-34 and heavier armor in one pass. It shoots at 880m\sec versus the german rounds with carbide core. 30mm 960m\sec and 37mm 1150m\sec.

So have you performed my test offline with the Ju87 yet? 
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Offline Lusche

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #161 on: April 07, 2014, 06:27:10 PM »
So have you performed my test offline with the Ju87 yet? 

Oh, I have.

I did a few approaches, though they didn't all ended up at exactly 30°, not easy to hold a specific angle in a plane you are not used to that much (Hurri D being my main tank buster).
I found it very well possible to pull up from a ~20-25 deg dive at 45m, but that was very close. I could do so at the end of a attack run (my Hurri D attacks sometimes get as close), but there's no way I'm going to start shooting at that range and then pulling up. Even from my comfy chair with with a top of the line that's a incredible cartoon risk. 45m (~150yards) is about the "pull up" limit to me.

While there is no doubt there might be some pilots better than me with better reflexes, but I'm not exactly new to this tank busting stuff either... ;)

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Offline Reaper90

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #162 on: April 07, 2014, 06:35:08 PM »
How many notches of flaps you got out on our attack run, and what throttle setting?

hint: getting well slower than 200 ias is easy on the attack run, even at -30 deg AoA.
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Offline pervert

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #163 on: April 07, 2014, 07:12:12 PM »
I can't even see the top hatch, if I could I certainly wouldn't have the time to line up a shot and then pull out. Perpetually baffled by posts like this.

E.g. "hit between the turret and hull"???? Really, I can barely make out the model of tank :bhead

I would be lying if I said I was aiming specifically for a spot playing on a laptop the res just is not high enough and barely enough time to line up for a shot before having to pull up, I usually zoom only to 600 ft on icon then have to get the nose down and aimed and pull up  :joystick: I view getting 2 hit splashes on a top profile and aim my piper in the middle between the end of the tank and the turret the convergance at 600 yds will hit the engine and top of the turret.

IF I want to risk getting main gunned, the the standard attack pattern will work oh so nicely.  Problem though, as mentioned, is it puts you WELL with in traversal range of the main gun.  I still find that sweet spot behind the turret, front of the engine, does nicely when coming in high. :)

If I can see it I will have to give that a try  :aok


Offline grizz441

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Re: tank main gun shooting planes down.
« Reply #164 on: April 07, 2014, 07:41:23 PM »
Thank you Lusche for keeping this thread somewhat interesting but can someone start a more interesting one?