Author Topic: B-25 sinking a destroyer  (Read 2317 times)

Offline bangsbox

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B-25 sinking a destroyer
« on: April 03, 2014, 02:07:06 PM »

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: B-25 sinking a destroyer
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2014, 02:19:48 PM »
Nice photo of a Mitchell doing a masthead attack run.

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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: B-25 sinking a destroyer
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2014, 03:17:01 PM »
Oh thats beautiful. :aok
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Offline Saxman

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Re: B-25 sinking a destroyer
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2014, 04:13:32 PM »
And of course trying that in the game will get you one-pinged to the tower by the manned guns from 5000 yards.
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Offline JimmyD3

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Re: B-25 sinking a destroyer
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2014, 12:03:37 PM »
Sweet!! :aok
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: B-25 sinking a destroyer
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2014, 12:07:38 PM »
And of course trying that in the game will get you one-pinged to the tower by the manned guns from 5000 yards.

Well maybe if we got IJN CV groups it would be different.

Also I dont believe the Naval versions of the B25s flew alone so attacks from different sides would lower the hazards, tho it was still dangerous and we did lose a lot of bombers. Im trying to remember the IJN troop transport convoy that was literally slaughtered by PBJ-1s of the USN. If I remember right the convoy was also hit by our allies in Beaufighters and what not.

That was it! The Battle of the Bismark Sea. http://www.airvectors.net/avb25.html
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While prewar US air combat doctrine emphasized medium or high altitude bombing attacks on shipping, experience had shown that approach to be ineffective. Kenney's aircrews instead developed a new scheme known as "skip bombing", in which a B-25 came in low over the water, spraying the target with its nose guns to wipe out enemy gunners, and then released a bomb with a time-delay fuze to skip over the water and slam into the target, exploding after the bomber had made its getaway. Skip-bombing was dangerous, since the attacker had to fly into the teeth of a ship's flak at such low level that there were cases of bombers striking the ship's mast. The bomb could even skip back up and hit the bomber.

However, skip bombing was also murderously effective. This was proven in early March 1943, when the Japanese attempted to ship 7,000 troops in a convoy from their major base at Rabaul in New Britain to Lae in New Guinea. The Japanese did not have air superiority, but they hoped bad weather would protect the convoy, which consisted of about eight transports and eight destroyers.

The convoy was spotted on 1 March, and was attacked by B-17s the next day. The Fortresses claimed several hits. On 3 March, the convoy was attacked by everything the Allies had: Fortresses, Bristol Beaufighters, and skip-bombing A-20s and B-25s. The result was a massacre, with ships blasted and sunk while the attackers mercilessly strafed the survivors in the water. All eight transports and four destroyers were sunk, and only about 800 Japanese soldiers made it to Lae. More than 3,600 were killed, at a loss to the Allies of 13 dead and 12 wounded. The Japanese still alive after the slaughter were ferried back to Rabaul on surviving destroyers. The "Battle of the Bismarck Sea", as it would be known, was a dramatic demonstration of air power.

Of course our CV groups are modeled on the USN Essex class groups. They had the best AA in the world at the time, tho the Brit CVs were probably tougher.
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Offline Volron

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Re: B-25 sinking a destroyer
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2014, 12:11:33 PM »
Brit CV's were armored deck while ours, not so much, if I recall correctly. :headscratch:
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: B-25 sinking a destroyer
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2014, 12:26:02 PM »
Im trying to remember the IJN troop transport convoy that was literally slaughtered by PBJ-1s of the USN. If I remember right the convoy was also hit by our allies in Beaufighters and what not.

That was it! The Battle of the Bismark Sea. http://www.airvectors.net/avb25.html


The Battle of the Bismarck Sea involved B-25s from the USAAF, not USN.  On a side note, the majority of the 3rd Attack Group's crew flying A-20s and B-25s were manned by RAAF crews due to shortages of USAAF crews.

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Offline Saxman

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Re: B-25 sinking a destroyer
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2014, 12:36:50 PM »
Brit CV's were armored deck while ours, not so much, if I recall correctly. :headscratch:

Only one I recall having an armored deck was Taiho, it being specifically mentioned because when she exploded after being torpedoed by Albacore the armored deck partially contained the blast and caused her sides to blow out, instead.

Wikipedia, at least, describes her as the first Japanese carrier with the armored deck.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline Widewing

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Re: B-25 sinking a destroyer
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2014, 12:46:30 PM »
Note that the vessel in the images is NOT a destroyer. Some websites have claimed that it is the IJN Destroyer, Amatsukaze. They are incorrect.

The ship is IJN Coastal Defense Vessel No. 134.

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Offline fracca

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Re: B-25 sinking a destroyer
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2014, 07:39:18 PM »
Brit CV's were armored deck while ours, not so much, if I recall correctly. :headscratch:

Ive read this numerous times over the years, but i don't believe i've ever seen a name attributed to the source, so i'm unsure of the authenticity. The sentiment is definetly true however:

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The USN liaison officer on Indefatigable commented: "When a kamikaze hits a US carrier it means 6 months of repair at Pearl [Harbor]. When a kamikaze hits a Limey carrier it's just a case of 'Sweepers, man your brooms.'”
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Offline Volron

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Re: B-25 sinking a destroyer
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2014, 07:54:52 PM »
 :rofl
Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
HiTech
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Quote from: Jolly
What on Earth makes you think that i said that sir?!
My guess would be scotch.

Offline Karnak

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Re: B-25 sinking a destroyer
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2014, 08:06:51 PM »
On the other hand American and Japanese fleet carriers carried a lot more aircraft than British fleet carriers.
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Offline fracca

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Re: B-25 sinking a destroyer
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2014, 12:13:11 AM »
On the other hand American and Japanese fleet carriers carried a lot more aircraft than British fleet carriers.

Very true of the earlier carriers, but i think the Implacable class had comparable air wings to the US counterparts, at the expense of some of their armor however. I think the brits used a double level hanger deck.
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: B-25 sinking a destroyer
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2014, 04:38:57 AM »
I read some interesting facts on these "coastal defense vessels".

Anyway apparently there is a print made from the attack http://irandpcorp.com/products/bats-outta-hell/

An interesting record of movements for this particular ship. http://www.combinedfleet.com/CD-134_t.htm

It appears two ships of this type were sunk that day and the convoy was attacked fiercely for days.

More interesting facts on the destruction of the Japanese convoy system. http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/japaneseshiploss.htm#pageiv
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