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Author Topic: Heavily Produced WW2 Aircraft Missing in AH2  (Read 3413 times)

Offline artik

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Heavily Produced WW2 Aircraft Missing in AH2
« on: April 06, 2014, 08:46:51 AM »
I collected the data, from Wikipeda about aircraft that:

- Miss from AH2
- Were produced above 1,000 units
- Served in WW2
- Combat aircraft (bomber/fighter/attacker)

I think it is interesting:

Top 10 missing planes are: 6 USSR, 3 UK and 1 USA

TypeCountryPlaneNumber
Medium BombersUKVickers Wellington11,461
Medium BombersUSSRPetlyakov Pe-211,427
FighterUSSRYakovlev Yak-18,700
CV BomberUSACurtiss SB2C Helldiver7,140
Medium BombersUSSRTupolev SB6,656
FighterUSSRLaGG-36,528
Heavy BomberUKHandley Page Halifax6,178
Heavy Fighter/AttackerUKBristol Beaufighter5,928
Medium BombersUSSRIlyushin Il-45,256
Light BomberUSSRIlyushin Il-104,966

Top missing planes of each type:

TypeCountryPlaneNumber
Biplane FighterUSSRPolikarpov I-1533,437
CV BomberUSACurtiss SB2C Helldiver7,140
FighterUSSRYakovlev Yak-18,700
Heavy BomberUKHandley Page Halifax6,178
Heavy Fighter/AttackerUKBristol Beaufighter5,928
Light BomberUSSRIlyushin Il-104,966
Medium BombersUKVickers Wellington11,461

Top missing planes of each country:

TypeCountryPlaneNumber
FighterFranceMorane-Saulnier M.S.4061,176
Medium BombersGermanDornier Do 172,139
Biplane FighterItalyFiat CR.421,817
FighterJapanNakajima Ki-273,368
Medium BombersUKVickers Wellington11,461
CV BomberUSACurtiss SB2C Helldiver7,140
Medium BombersUSSRPetlyakov Pe-211,427

Full Data

Sorted by production numbers

TypeCountryPlaneNumber
Medium BombersUKVickers Wellington11,461
Medium BombersUSSRPetlyakov Pe-211,427
FighterUSSRYakovlev Yak-18,700
CV BomberUSACurtiss SB2C Helldiver7,140
Medium BombersUSSRTupolev SB6,656
FighterUSSRLaGG-36,528
Heavy BomberUKHandley Page Halifax6,178
Heavy Fighter/AttackerUKBristol Beaufighter5,928
Medium BombersUSSRIlyushin Il-45,256
Light BomberUSSRIlyushin Il-104,966
Heavy Fighter/AttackerUKBristol Blenheim4,422
Biplane FighterUSSRPolikarpov I-1533,437
FighterJapanNakajima Ki-273,368
Biplane FighterUSSRPolikarpov I-153,313
FighterUSSRMikoyan-Gurevich MiG-33,172
Medium BombersUSALockheed Hudson2,941
CV BomberUKFairey Barracuda2,607
Medium BombersUSADouglas A-26 Invader2,452
CV BomberUKFairey Swordfish2,391
Light BomberJapanMitsubishi Ki-512385
Heavy BomberUKShort Stirling2,383
Light BomberUKFairey Battle2,185
Medium BombersGermanDornier Do 172,139
Medium BombersUKBristol Beaufort2,129
Medium BombersJapanMitsubishi Ki-212,064
CV BomberJapanYokosuka D4Y2,038
Medium BombersJapanKawasaki Ki-481,997
Light BomberUSAVultee A-31 Vengeance1,931
Medium BombersGermanDornier Do 2171,925
Biplane FighterItalyFiat CR.421,817
Medium BombersUKA.W.38 Whitley 1,814
Heavy Fighter/AttackerUKFairey Firefly1,702
Heavy Fighter/AttackerJapanKawasaki Ki-451,691
Medium BombersUSAMartin Baltimore1,575
Medium BombersUKHandley Page Hampden1,430
Medium BombersItalySavoia-Marchetti SM.791,350
Biplane FighterItalyFiat CR.321,306
CV BomberJapanNakajima B6N1,268
Medium BombersGermanJunkers Ju 1881,234
FighterJapanNakajima Ki-441,227
FighterFranceMorane-Saulnier M.S.4061,176
Heavy BomberGermanHeinkel He 1771,169
FighterItalyMacchi C.2001,153
Medium BombersJapanYokosuka P1Y1,102
FighterJapanMitsubishi A5M1,094
Heavy Fighter/AttackerUKBoulton Paul Defiant1,064
Medium BombersJapanMitsubishi G3M1,048
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 08:51:17 AM by artik »
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Offline artik

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Re: Heavily Produced WW2 Aircraft Missing in AH2
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2014, 08:55:10 AM »

Sorted By Country>Number

TypeCountryPlaneNumber
FighterFranceMorane-Saulnier M.S.4061,176
Medium BombersGermanDornier Do 172,139
Medium BombersGermanDornier Do 2171,925
Medium BombersGermanJunkers Ju 1881,234
Heavy BomberGermanHeinkel He 1771,169
Biplane FighterItalyFiat CR.421,817
Medium BombersItalySavoia-Marchetti SM.791,350
Biplane FighterItalyFiat CR.321,306
FighterItalyMacchi C.2001,153
FighterJapanNakajima Ki-273,368
Light BomberJapanMitsubishi Ki-512385
Medium BombersJapanMitsubishi Ki-212,064
CV BomberJapanYokosuka D4Y2,038
Medium BombersJapanKawasaki Ki-481,997
Heavy Fighter/AttackerJapanKawasaki Ki-451,691
CV BomberJapanNakajima B6N1,268
FighterJapanNakajima Ki-441,227
Medium BombersJapanYokosuka P1Y1,102
FighterJapanMitsubishi A5M1,094
Medium BombersJapanMitsubishi G3M1,048
Medium BombersUKVickers Wellington11,461
Heavy BomberUKHandley Page Halifax6,178
Heavy Fighter/AttackerUKBristol Beaufighter5,928
Heavy Fighter/AttackerUKBristol Blenheim4,422
CV BomberUKFairey Barracuda2,607
CV BomberUKFairey Swordfish2,391
Heavy BomberUKShort Stirling2,383
Light BomberUKFairey Battle2,185
Medium BombersUKBristol Beaufort2,129
Medium BombersUKA.W.38 Whitley 1,814
Heavy Fighter/AttackerUKFairey Firefly1,702
Medium BombersUKHandley Page Hampden1,430
Heavy Fighter/AttackerUKBoulton Paul Defiant1,064
CV BomberUSACurtiss SB2C Helldiver7,140
Medium BombersUSALockheed Hudson2,941
Medium BombersUSADouglas A-26 Invader2,452
Light BomberUSAVultee A-31 Vengeance1,931
Medium BombersUSAMartin Baltimore1,575
Medium BombersUSSRPetlyakov Pe-211,427
FighterUSSRYakovlev Yak-18,700
Medium BombersUSSRTupolev SB6,656
FighterUSSRLaGG-36,528
Medium BombersUSSRIlyushin Il-45,256
Light BomberUSSRIlyushin Il-104,966
Biplane FighterUSSRPolikarpov I-1533,437
Biplane FighterUSSRPolikarpov I-153,313
FighterUSSRMikoyan-Gurevich MiG-33,172


Sorted By Type>Number

TypeCountryPlaneNumber
Biplane FighterUSSRPolikarpov I-1533,437
Biplane FighterUSSRPolikarpov I-153,313
Biplane FighterItalyFiat CR.421,817
Biplane FighterItalyFiat CR.321,306
CV BomberUSACurtiss SB2C Helldiver7,140
CV BomberUKFairey Barracuda2,607
CV BomberUKFairey Swordfish2,391
CV BomberJapanYokosuka D4Y2,038
CV BomberJapanNakajima B6N1,268
FighterUSSRYakovlev Yak-18,700
FighterUSSRLaGG-36,528
FighterJapanNakajima Ki-273,368
FighterUSSRMikoyan-Gurevich MiG-33,172
FighterJapanNakajima Ki-441,227
FighterFranceMorane-Saulnier M.S.4061,176
FighterItalyMacchi C.2001,153
FighterJapanMitsubishi A5M1,094
Heavy BomberUKHandley Page Halifax6,178
Heavy BomberUKShort Stirling2,383
Heavy BomberGermanHeinkel He 1771,169
Heavy Fighter/AttackerUKBristol Beaufighter5,928
Heavy Fighter/AttackerUKBristol Blenheim4,422
Heavy Fighter/AttackerUKFairey Firefly1,702
Heavy Fighter/AttackerJapanKawasaki Ki-451,691
Heavy Fighter/AttackerUKBoulton Paul Defiant1,064
Light BomberUSSRIlyushin Il-104,966
Light BomberJapanMitsubishi Ki-512385
Light BomberUKFairey Battle2,185
Light BomberUSAVultee A-31 Vengeance1,931
Medium BombersUKVickers Wellington11,461
Medium BombersUSSRPetlyakov Pe-211,427
Medium BombersUSSRTupolev SB6,656
Medium BombersUSSRIlyushin Il-45,256
Medium BombersUSALockheed Hudson2,941
Medium BombersUSADouglas A-26 Invader2,452
Medium BombersGermanDornier Do 172,139
Medium BombersUKBristol Beaufort2,129
Medium BombersJapanMitsubishi Ki-212,064
Medium BombersJapanKawasaki Ki-481,997
Medium BombersGermanDornier Do 2171,925
Medium BombersUKA.W.38 Whitley 1,814
Medium BombersUSAMartin Baltimore1,575
Medium BombersUKHandley Page Hampden1,430
Medium BombersItalySavoia-Marchetti SM.791,350
Medium BombersGermanJunkers Ju 1881,234
Medium BombersJapanYokosuka P1Y1,102
Medium BombersJapanMitsubishi G3M1,048
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Offline colmbo

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Re: Heavily Produced WW2 Aircraft Missing in AH2
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2014, 10:29:13 AM »
It looks like the Vultee A-31 did not see action.  The A-35 did see some action with the British.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Heavily Produced WW2 Aircraft Missing in AH2
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2014, 10:44:10 AM »
While some of those do need to be added, you have to also consider what they offer for the work needed to add them and how passable a stand in an existing aircraft in the game is.

For example, the Lancaster and the Halifax offer very similar performance and capabilities, the Lancaster being very slightly superior.  Adding a heavy bomber is a lot of work for HTC and that being the case it is really hard to justify the Halifax in light of how suitable the existing Lancaster is as a stand in for it.

There are many other examples in there that follow a similar pattern.


The other thing to consider is how useful would it be.  The Fairey Battle only saw service in the Battle of France where it was hacked from the skies mercilessly by the Germans.  That is not a lot of scenarios for it considering it would be almost usless in the MA and that the Japanese B5N2 is a fair stand in for it in terms of speed, payload and durability.


Production numbers are also not the only arbiter.  It is possible for an aircraft with lower production, such as the 140 or so H8Ks, to have seen more combat and heavier use than something with production in the thousands.

You seem to have left off flying boats...
« Last Edit: April 06, 2014, 10:48:03 AM by Karnak »
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Offline morfiend

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Re: Heavily Produced WW2 Aircraft Missing in AH2
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2014, 03:49:05 PM »
 I didnt see a single Canadian plane in the lot! :devil






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Offline artik

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Re: Heavily Produced WW2 Aircraft Missing in AH2
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2014, 04:12:44 PM »
Things that would be simple:

- Yak-1 - it is must to have plane for all Eastern front Early-Middle war setups - it is just a variant of Yak
- LaGG-3 - is variant of La - should be simple as well and important for Estern front setups
- Pe-2 - is probably the most important single missing USSR aircraft
- Beaufighter - it is just classics and good attacker
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Heavily Produced WW2 Aircraft Missing in AH2
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2014, 05:16:21 PM »
Yak-1 and LaGG-3 would reuse some assets, but I don't see the Pe-2 or Beaufighter as being any easier for HTC to add than any other aircraft of their size.
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Offline 715

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Re: Heavily Produced WW2 Aircraft Missing in AH2
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2014, 05:37:48 PM »
Wasn't the LaGG-1 and/or -3 called the "morticians mate" and "comrades varnished coffin"  i.e. it was a terrible plane that was hard to fly and enormously outmatched by the Me109 and that lead to the quick death of its pilots?
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Heavily Produced WW2 Aircraft Missing in AH2
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2014, 06:23:03 PM »
Quote from: 715 on April 06, 2014, 05:37:48 PM
Wasn't the LaGG-1 and/or -3 called the "morticians mate" and "comrades varnished coffin"  i.e. it was a terrible plane that was hard to fly and enormously outmatched by the Me109 and that lead to the quick death of its pilots?
"Guaranteed Varnished Coffin" is what I heard.  Because it was largely wooden.

And yes, it was heavily out matched.  That said, the LaGG-3 and Yak-1 were the core of the first effective VVS resistance to the Luftwaffe in the east and should both be in game for that reason, even if it is a hard fight for them.
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Offline -aper-

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Re: Heavily Produced WW2 Aircraft Missing in AH2
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2014, 06:47:28 PM »
Quote from: 715 on April 06, 2014, 05:37:48 PM
Wasn't the LaGG-1 and/or -3 called the "morticians mate" and "comrades varnished coffin"  i.e. it was a terrible plane that was hard to fly and enormously outmatched by the Me109 and that lead to the quick death of its pilots?

Yak-1 vs LaGG-3 is like Albatros D.V vs Pfalz D.III.  Russian pilots criticized the LaGG's excessive weight, bad acceleration, and low rate of climb compared to the Yak-1. On the other hand LaGG-3 was more durable, it could dive safely at much higher speeds and could withstand much higher g-loadings.

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Offline Widewing

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Re: Heavily Produced WW2 Aircraft Missing in AH2
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2014, 06:55:23 PM »
There's a few missing on your list that were significant in combat.

Some examples?

We don't have the F6F-3. We have the F6F-5, modeled to perform like the -3.

We don't have the P-38H.

We don't have the P-36/Hawk 75.

We don't have the Seafire MK.III

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Offline Saxman

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Re: Heavily Produced WW2 Aircraft Missing in AH2
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2014, 07:35:16 PM »
Quote from: Widewing on April 06, 2014, 06:55:23 PM
There's a few missing on your list that were significant in combat.

Some examples?

We don't have the F6F-3. We have the F6F-5, modeled to perform like the -3.


F4F-3 is the same case. We have the F4F-4 with a four-gun package option, but that package makes it an FM-1 which is still an entirely different animal than the F4F-3 (longer range, but also lighter).
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Offline artik

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Re: Heavily Produced WW2 Aircraft Missing in AH2
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2014, 02:03:02 AM »
Quote from: Widewing on April 06, 2014, 06:55:23 PM
We don't have the F6F-3. We have the F6F-5, modeled to perform like the -3.
We don't have the P-38H.
We don't have the Seafire MK.III

It is a subtype - I didn't include subtypes in the list. (at least according by not having separate arcile) - i.e. if the subtype isn't that significantly different - for F6F - there is a single article and no production numbers for subtypes.
Also I don't have data for Seafire III an

Now about P-38H, besides being subversion (also important one), also there were 601 P-38H produced - goes below the threshold I mentioned.

Quote from: Widewing on April 06, 2014, 06:55:23 PM
We don't have the P-36/Hawk 75.

You are right about that, according to wiki:

Number built   215 (P-36) plus 900 export Hawk 75 variants

So totally: 1115, but didn't noticed that there were two numbers that should be added.

Quote
...F4F-3 is the same case...

Don't we have enough US planes?

Take a look on the list: 5 out of 47 are US planes, and none of the missing major variants are fighters, 1 CV bomber and 4 bombers - which is quite low if you compare them to 13 UK, 9 Russian and 11 Japanese?

BTW I forgot to mention the Meteor that 3,947 were produced but I didn't written it into the list because it major production was post war - on the other hand many in there list were not produced during the war as were outdated.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2014, 02:17:55 AM by artik »
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Offline Karnak

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Re: Heavily Produced WW2 Aircraft Missing in AH2
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2014, 02:11:33 AM »
Yak-1 and LaGG-3 are both just as much subtypes as the F6F-3 and Seafire Mk III are.
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Offline artik

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Re: Heavily Produced WW2 Aircraft Missing in AH2
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2014, 02:44:52 AM »
Quote from: Karnak on April 07, 2014, 02:11:33 AM
Yak-1 and LaGG-3 are both just as much subtypes as the F6F-3 and Seafire Mk III are.

Not exactly.

See, the USSR naming nomenclature is different. The Yak - is just a design bureau (+/- a firm like Grumman or Vought) now the number changes the major variant.

In same way you can call Grumman F4F Wildcat, Grumman F6F Hellcat in soviet naming as Grumman-4 and Grumman-6 - when the Grumman 6 is development of Grumman 4.

Also take a look on LaGG-3 and La-5 - they are very different - also they share same basic design they have entirely different engine also they were designed by different bureaus.

On the other hand A-36 and P-51 which are basically the same plane with small modifications.

In any case it is easy to talk what is variant and what isn't - it would be endless discussion with no correct solution.

When I created this table I used simple rule - do they have a separate Wikipedia article or not?
It by no means perfect as for example there is a one article for 109 and Spitfire.

But... it gives statistically "independent" point of view such that my personal opinion wouldn't interfere with the data.
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