Author Topic: Cessna light attack jet  (Read 1065 times)

Offline Gman

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Cessna light attack jet
« on: April 10, 2014, 06:26:29 PM »
http://theaviationist.com/2014/04/10/scorpion-low-speed-interception/

Quote
Cessna’s parent company Textron Scorpion is a low cost Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR)/Strike aircraft with a cruising speed of up to 450 knots.

Developed in about 2 years, the aircraft has a ferry range of 2,400 NM (nautical miles) and a payload of 3,000 lbs internal stores as well as underwing PGMs (Precision Guided Munitions), is pitched for ISR and homeland security mission set.

Indeed, the “affordable warplane for low-threat missions” has shown its impressive stability and responsiveness by intercepting a Cessna 182 flying at extremely low speed: 120 KCAS (Knots Calibrated Air Speed).

The two-seater with twin tails, a two 8,000 lb turbofan engines, straight wings and all-composite fuselage seems be a perfect match for the “low-cost combat plane to contain the cost of prolonged operations,” whose need emerged during Libya Air War 2011.

Even if it is unclear whether such platform has real chances to see active service within the U.S. or any other country’s air arm, for sure the image of the mock interception on the C182 shows that the Scorpion would be capable to perform, if needed, even the SMI (Slow Mover Interceptor) role.

I've posted here before about this little bird.  It's kind of interesting, internal weapons bays, able to cruise at 450 kts, is very, very cheap, yet can employ pretty much all the weapons in the USAF arsenal.  Maybe it isn't a bad way to go for places that aren't denied areas, or once air superiority is completely established.  Who knows, just something to think about none the less, and obviosly the folks at Cessna think there is potential of some sort with it.

In uncontested airspace where the F15/16/A10/etc cost 30,000 per hour to operate, just to provide overwatch and drop the occasional bomb or burst of cannon fire, why not have a plane that can do all that for less than 3000$ per hour, 1/10 the cost?  I'm not saying it's perfect, but it isn't the worst idea I've seen, to be sure, especially with the cost of defense and the current issues around that.

I also read today that even if there needs to be a radar and supersonic flight capable version for intercepting airborne threats, it can easily and cheaply be done with this design by adding more powerful engines and a bit of wing sweep - they've already done the specs for it supposedly.  It would no doubt cost a little more to operate, but not much more.  The current version has plug and play removable wings, so a redesign for a supersonic capable interceptor was obviously considered from the start.  The current air to ground/surveillance version has a reconfigurable internal bay that can hold up to 3000lb of equipment/ordinance, and the 6 hardpoints under the wings can hold an additional 3200lbs, giving it a 6000lb+ capability for sensors/weapons.  That isn't too bad, and having 2 pilots is a great idea, something I know Eagl and Mace here have spoken about at great length, regarding crew workload and the advantages of having two guys in the cockpit.

There's a pile of pilots, enthusiast, x-military, etc here - there has to be some good opinions for and against this type of aircraft from those here.  Comments?

« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 06:37:23 PM by Gman »

Offline Nefarious

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Re: Cessna light attack jet
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2014, 06:38:28 PM »
Just an Arm Chair cartoon pilot here, but it looks to me to have the potential to be the next F-5, perhaps cheaper? Not sure.

Just curious the need for two crewmen? I guess two more sets of eyes? Doesn't seem like it would have a powerful radar or optics system that required the need for RIO or B/N, etc..
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline DaveBB

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Re: Cessna light attack jet
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2014, 06:42:21 PM »
Too vulnerable to manpads or even 50 cal machine guns.  History is repeating itself.  During the Vietnam War, the U.S used a whole host of light attack aircraft.  From the Cessna Birddog to the Bronco.  They were very vulnerable to AA fire.  The A-1 Skyraider was a bit different though.  It possessed attributes that allowed it to get in and out without being targeted for too long.  Probably more to do with Naval tactics than anything else.
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Offline Fish42

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Re: Cessna light attack jet
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2014, 06:43:26 PM »
Just curious the need for two crewmen? I guess two more sets of eyes? Doesn't seem like it would have a powerful radar or optics system that required the need for RIO or B/N, etc..

Potential trainer with 2 seats. Also as tech gets better, the option to install as full suit of electronics might become an option.

Offline Nefarious

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Re: Cessna light attack jet
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2014, 06:49:22 PM »
Potential trainer with 2 seats. Also as tech gets better, the option to install as full suit of electronics might become an option.

Yep. Good call.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Gman

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Re: Cessna light attack jet
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2014, 07:03:32 PM »
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Too vulnerable to manpads or even 50 cal machine guns

That's a valid point.  However, like I said, I've read that it would only be for areas were the airspace is completely uncontested, like Iraq and Afghanistan turned out.  Could there be a manpads and large caliber gun threat still?  Absolutely, you're right, but it would hopefully be nothing like the level of threat there was in your Vietnam example.  I'm talking about say Afghanistan right now as is.  So long as the aircraft stayed at medium, to higher low alt sort of heights, say whatever that is, 6 or 8k feet, whatever the experts here say is out of gun range essentially, the only possible threat would be a manpads missile.  There are off the shelf systems available now in the USA that very effectively counter these missiles.  I have first hand pictures and knowledge of this, from an incident with coworkers in Iraq (I've sent the pics to Gsholz in the past) - the countermeasures do work vs manpads missiles, and that was at far lower altitude than this Scorpion jet would be flying.

Nevertheless, I believe that it's a valid point and consideration, and would have to be carefully examined with regards to how, when, and where this little bird could be deployed and used.

Offline LCADolby

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Re: Cessna light attack jet
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2014, 07:07:43 PM »
Must be dirt cheap, it has the 182's wings.
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Offline kilo2

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Re: Cessna light attack jet
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2014, 07:46:42 PM »
That's a valid point.  However, like I said, I've read that it would only be for areas were the airspace is completely uncontested, like Iraq and Afghanistan turned out.  Could there be a manpads and large caliber gun threat still?  Absolutely, you're right, but it would hopefully be nothing like the level of threat there was in your Vietnam example.  I'm talking about say Afghanistan right now as is.  So long as the aircraft stayed at medium, to higher low alt sort of heights, say whatever that is, 6 or 8k feet, whatever the experts here say is out of gun range essentially, the only possible threat would be a manpads missile.  There are off the shelf systems available now in the USA that very effectively counter these missiles.  I have first hand pictures and knowledge of this, from an incident with coworkers in Iraq (I've sent the pics to Gsholz in the past) - the countermeasures do work vs manpads missiles, and that was at far lower altitude than this Scorpion jet would be flying.

Nevertheless, I believe that it's a valid point and consideration, and would have to be carefully examined with regards to how, when, and where this little bird could be deployed and used.

These things would be the biggest threat I think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDwMPGn80VQ
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Offline Plawranc

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Re: Cessna light attack jet
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2014, 08:11:36 PM »
I reckon if you made a single seat CAS version, replacing the 2nd crew member with all the nifty gear, while more expensive per unit. Its combat effectiveness could be quite potent.
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Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Cessna light attack jet
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2014, 12:04:43 AM »
Why not just put a bomb bay to that 182, even cheaper!
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Offline Swoop

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Re: Cessna light attack jet
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2014, 05:15:05 AM »
A marketing team must have picked the name cos it's stupid.  The thing should be called a TomKitten.

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

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Re: Cessna light attack jet
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2014, 08:51:30 AM »
That reminds me of the mercenarys in Africa fighting with 40 year old Fouga Magisters. Not state of the art but when the enemy has no airpower at all, it's pretty cool tool.
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Offline Golfer

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Re: Cessna light attack jet
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2014, 12:28:14 PM »
Underneath the ugly with a capital "F" exterior is a hodgepodge of Citation parts with Garrett/Honeywell motors.  $3,000 would probably be on the high side of operating cost but makes sense given they'd not be flown the way a business jet would be.

I hope they buy a pile of them, build a pile of new F15's and nix the F35 and put the dollars into a couple hundred more F22s and 2 A-10's for every one of those.  I'm not in charge it turns out so we'll see if my wish is granted by the armament fairy.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 12:30:17 PM by Golfer »

Offline Zoney

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Re: Cessna light attack jet
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2014, 12:48:21 PM »
I want one.
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Cessna light attack jet
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2014, 02:09:56 PM »
What was that light trainer used in Africa and maybe Indo/Pako as a light CAS?
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