Author Topic: P-39 Cannon Rounds  (Read 1043 times)

Offline TylerMac

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P-39 Cannon Rounds
« on: April 18, 2014, 10:27:03 AM »
Any thought given to the AP rounds for the 37mm on the P-39?  :pray I know the Q model was primarily flown in the air to air role but equipping these fighters with the AP round could get these queens out of the hanger. :aok
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Offline Karnak

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Re: P-39 Cannon Rounds
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2014, 10:51:39 AM »
They didn't use AP rounds in WWII, hence no AP rounds in AH for them.

Also, with the crappy muzzle velocity of the Oldsmobile 37mm I doubt the AP performance would be particularly good.
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Offline TylerMac

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Re: P-39 Cannon Rounds
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2014, 12:40:15 PM »
Some American squadrons were equipped with 39's and they could have been issued the M80 AP rounds.  Just because they weren't shipped actively to Russia wouldn't mean a few couldn't have turned up over there.  Records from WW2 era Russia is dodgy at best. Panzer's, M4's and various other GV's can be crippled and occasionally killed with just the HE rounds.  Just a thought to get the plane some more usage  :salute
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: P-39 Cannon Rounds
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2014, 12:48:19 PM »
Post some documentation that they used AP rounds and I'm sure they will look into it. Just saying "they could have been issued....." isn't enough to get it changed.

Offline Karnak

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Re: P-39 Cannon Rounds
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2014, 01:01:31 PM »
Some American squadrons were equipped with 39's and they could have been issued the M80 AP rounds.  Just because they weren't shipped actively to Russia wouldn't mean a few couldn't have turned up over there.  Records from WW2 era Russia is dodgy at best. Panzer's, M4's and various other GV's can be crippled and occasionally killed with just the HE rounds.  Just a thought to get the plane some more usage  :salute
The onus is on you to demonstrate that as fact.  It won't be added because of a might have been.
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Offline Randy1

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Re: P-39 Cannon Rounds
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2014, 01:27:15 PM »
I often wonder what stunted the P39, and latter the P63 development programs.  Bad management, back room politics, poor engineers or all four. Loosing both P63 prototypes suggest bad design and bad management.

Offline Karnak

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Re: P-39 Cannon Rounds
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2014, 01:34:07 PM »
I often wonder what stunted the P39, and latter the P63 development programs.  Bad management, back room politics, poor engineers or all four. Loosing both P63 prototypes suggest bad design and bad management.
Lack of need in the USAAF for a short ranged interceptor.
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Offline Randy1

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Re: P-39 Cannon Rounds
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2014, 04:38:08 PM »
Lack of need in the USAAF for a short ranged interceptor.

I don't think so.

Lot of bad decisions from day one.

Offline Karnak

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Re: P-39 Cannon Rounds
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2014, 04:55:38 PM »
I don't think so.

Lot of bad decisions from day one.
Where did the USAAF need a short ranged interceptor in the timeframe that the P-63 would have been available?
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: P-39 Cannon Rounds
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2014, 05:16:40 PM »
Where did the USAAF need a short ranged interceptor in the timeframe that the P-63 would have been available?

To stop the German's second attack on Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7th 1945, of course!

You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Saxman

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Re: P-39 Cannon Rounds
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2014, 05:20:02 PM »
I often wonder what stunted the P39, and latter the P63 development programs.  Bad management, back room politics, poor engineers or all four. Loosing both P63 prototypes suggest bad design and bad management.

As I recall, what really hurt the P-39 was the insistence on removing the supercharger. By all accounts I've seen, the Airacobra was a pretty nice machine until the supercharger was stripped out.

That said, didn't more than a few of the US squadrons P-39 and P-400 squadrons object to having to give them up, once they figured out (like the Russians did) it was a handy little low-altitude fighter/CAS machine
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Offline TylerMac

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Re: P-39 Cannon Rounds
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2014, 06:33:23 AM »
Chuck Yeager had nothing but praise for it in his memoirs.  Some pretty interesting stories about it in that book but no combat.
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Offline Randy1

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Re: P-39 Cannon Rounds
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2014, 06:37:02 AM »
Where did the USAAF need a short ranged interceptor in the timeframe that the P-63 would have been available?

Please refer to my first post, noting the whole program was dotted with bad decisions.

I often wonder what stunted the P39, and latter the P63 development programs.  Bad management, back room politics, poor engineers or all four. Loosing both P63 prototypes suggest bad design and bad management.


Offline Blinder

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Re: P-39 Cannon Rounds
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2014, 08:23:43 AM »
I emailed a guy with a pretty impressive website on the topic of P-39s in Soviet service. Maybe he has some information about the unofficial use of AP rounds in Soviet ground attack successes on the Eastern Front.

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/index.html
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Offline Soulyss

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Re: P-39 Cannon Rounds
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2014, 10:19:44 AM »
I often wonder what stunted the P39, and latter the P63 development programs.  Bad management, back room politics, poor engineers or all four. Loosing both P63 prototypes suggest bad design and bad management.

The removal of the turbo supercharger as already mentioned was probably the single biggest blow to the P-39, but there are other aspects of it's design that would have limited it usefulness in US operations during the war.  

The reasons behind the removal of the supercharger seem to have been largely been a combination of finances and optimistic thinking, the turbo supercharger reliability was still in question during the development time of the P-39.  Companies typically didn't get paid till a production contract was awarded and the delay in production may have bankrupted Bell Aircraft, they also had wind tunnel data that suggested that the P-39 could still attain 400mph w/out it.   I'm going from memory, but as I recall those were the primary factors behind the decision according to the book "Cobra! Bell Aircraft Corporation 1934-1946" by Birch Matthews.

The most notable other handicap was probably the lack of range, but I also don't think the armament was ever entirely satisfactory.   The 37mm had a really low ROF and low muzzle velocity, and the combination of cannon, .50 cal, and .30 cal weapons meant you had 3 different ballistic properties to contend with.  The 37mm was also plagued by jamming in combat (at least in the south and southwest pacific).

The flight controls were very, very sensitive and responsive which is where you see praise for the handling from the likes of Chuck Yeager and Bud Anderson, in the hands of a skilled pilot the thing must have been a lot of fun to fly at low altitudes but a more average pilot would have had their hands full.  The P-39 had a wicked accelerated stall that would bite the unwary.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 10:38:28 AM by Soulyss »
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