P47N Climb Rate?

[Randy1]

Am I reading this letter wrong?  The N is a terrible climber in AH but in this letter it out climbs the D with both planes in WEP and combat load( which I think is full fuel and full ammo load).  The AH shows the N to be a slower climber in WEP than the D in WEP.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/comp-p47dmn.jpg

[Karnak]

Which D model would be the question that jumps out at me.  Which prop was it using?

[FLS]

Note the weights in the letter vs the AH charts. Combat load is likely 267 rpg.

[Widewing]

That document also reflects combat power.....

[bozon]

The AH shows the N to be a slower climber in WEP than the D in WEP.

In the game the N outclimbs the D given the same loadout, on WEP. Note that "same" means absolute gallons of fuel, not percentage.

The N is heavier and has the same power on MIL as the D's, so it is the worst climber on MIL. It has a super crazy WEP though which makes up for the extra weight when engaged. The M model has about the same weight as the other D25/40 but the WEP power of the N.

[Randy1]

That document also reflects combat power.....

It says WEP.  Is WEP the same as combat power?

Anyone know how they define combat weight?

There is no match with AH using 100% fuel and the smaller eight 50s load-out.  The AH weight is higher than the letter listed combat weight.

The date of the letter suggest a late war D model but of course that is a guess.

[FLS]

Why assume full fuel? The weights are given in the letter.

[Randy1]

Why assume full fuel? The weights are given in the letter.

I thought I had read somewhere that combat weight(as listed in the letter) is defined as full fuel and full ammo for a fighter.  I then compared the weight in the letter to the E6b.

This afternoon I will attempt to find a combo to match weights in the letter to AH.

[BnZs]

The N also carries a vast amount of fuel compared to other Jugs. Thus any simple climb rate comparison with both planes at 50 percent load out will not accurately reflect the N's capacities. Comparing the planes at fuel loads that give equivalent time in the air is more appropriate.

[Randy1]

The N also carries a vast amount of fuel compared to other Jugs. Thus any simple climb rate comparison with both planes at 50 percent load out will not accurately reflect the N's capacities. Comparing the planes at fuel loads that give equivalent time in the air is more appropriate.

Best I can tell is the acceptance performance test were all done with 200 gallons of fuel with simulated ammo loads. 

The letter's test were done at an undefined Combat weight and were more than likely performed at a base somewhere using stopwatches and on board standard instruments.   In others words there is nothing in the letter we can hang our hat on as I have found out.   

[Rich46yo]

The 47M is a beast. A BEAST!

[Zoney]

The 47M is a beast. A BEAST!

Yes it is, it takes me quite awhile to chase them down in my TA152 sometimes. 

[Randy1]

This quote came from the P38J performance test about combat weight.  300 gallons is 3/4 fuel.

"   High speed and climb performance have been completed on this airplane at a take-off weight of 16,597 lb. This loading corresponds to athe average P-38 combat weight with full oil, 300 gallons of fuel and specified armament and ammunition. "

Then I found this on a 70"hg P38J test.

"All tests were flown at a gross weight at take-off of 17,363 lbs. with the c.g. at 26.72% MAC, gear up, and 23.86% MAC gear down. This weight which corresponds to the combat weight of the airplane included 416 gallons of gasoline, full oil, 457.5 lbs. of ballst for 1500 rounds of .50 caliber ammunition, and 200 lbs. for the pilot. "

Note no mention of the canon weight added.

[FLS]

Since the P-38 does not have a 1500 round load the ballast is likely for both gun and cannon ammo.

The AH J model with full fuel and 200 rounds per gun weighs 17,328 lbs vs the 17,363 lbs quoted.

The early J models had 4 fuel tanks for 306 total gallons. Our J, and the L model, has 6 tanks with
416 gallons capacity.  If the first test was an early model J it would have 300 gallons for a full combat load.

[Randy1]

Thanks FLS.