Author Topic: German MW Bombers  (Read 1459 times)

Offline Tank-Ace

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German MW Bombers
« on: April 20, 2014, 06:07:41 PM »
So HTC is still hard at work on the new graphics engine, and I'm thrilled about that. However, once its done, the Ju-88 could stand an update, being the oldest 3D model in the game right now. Along with it, we could get another variant or two of the Ju-88, like the G nightfighter, and P attacker variants.

Along with it, we could get the Ju-188, which reuses much of the Ju-88 model. However, it would still be a relatively unattractive choice for the MA, simply due to the distribution of its bomb load, being identical to that of the Ju-88.


From what I can find, the A model would be the best for AH, being the fastest at 320mph @ 20k (I would estimate about 270mph clean on the deck on the deck). Same loadout as the Ju-88, as far as I can find. The big difference would be its speed, and its defensive armament, consisting of 1 20mm cannon, and 3 13mm MG's.

There seems to be some conflicting layout of the guns. Most text sources state the 20mm was in the nose, with 1 13mm machine gun in a rotating top turret, 1 13mm machine gun in a dorsal mount, similar to the mounts on the current Ju-88, and 1 13mm machine gun in a ventral position. Not stellar, but certianly better than the 4 7.92mm machine guns on the Ju-88. However, I'm seeing photographs with what appear to be a 20mm cannon in both the nose and dorsal mounts, though this might be a field modification, and as such would not be seen in the game.

A D-1 variant existed, being the same as the A-1, but with bomb aimer and nose cannon removed, and extra fuel being carried. This could be represented as a loadout option.




I would also like to see the Do 217M added for MA usage, despite a more limited use in special events. It would be a much better MA bomber, since its ordnance was better distributed into a more conventional layout. The Do 217M-1 appears to have been the fastest variant, powered by a pair of DB 603 engines, as used on the 410. It could carry 3000kg (6,600lbs) internally, and up to 4000kg (8,800lbs) in a combination of internal and external stores. The Do-217M-1 was capable of 342mph at altitude and about 290mph at sea level with a clean configuration, from what I can find.

Defensive armament would consist of 1 7.92mm MG 81Z (as in the 110G) in the nose, a pair of single-mount MG 81's in lateral positions (firing from the side of the crew compartment, as opposed to a true waist gunner position, as on the B-17 and B-24), a single 13mm Mg 131 in a rotating top turret, and a single Mg 131 in a ventral position. Not outstanding, but lacking only a single 13mm machine gun towards the rear quarter over what the Ju-188 provides.




Both would be very decent German bombers, and not out of place in the LW arena, offering different combinations of speed, firepower, and bombload from what we have now. The Do 217 might make a pretty fair competitor for the current heavy bombers, being faster and harder to intercept, as well as carrying a decently heavy bomb load, and reasonable if not outstanding defensive firepower to the rear quarter.

Climb and maneuverability would be relatively poor, but it would be fast (pretty much tied for 4th fastest bomber in the game with the Tu-2, and again tied for the fastest free bomber, but carrying the Tu-2's maximum load internally, or an extra 2,200lbs in both internal and external stores), and its bomb load would be more usefully distributed in a greater number of 250kg or 500kg bombs, similar to the B-17's 500 or 1000lb bombs.

The Ju-188 would be more limited in its bomb load, only carrying 2,200lbs internally in the light 50kg bombs, and larger external mountings. While better defended, better climbing, and more maneuverable, it would sacrifice speed, and carry its bomb load in a less useful configuration. While it wouldn't be anything of a "slouch" in AH terms, it would simply be more constrained by the distribution of its bomb load into several large external stores.

Some effects might be either reduced efficiency when attacking hangers with the salvo of 2 500kg (1000lb) bombs, or the chance of the hanger not being destroyed with a salvo of 1, due to drone offset and wind putting the bombs just slight off target. Attacking towns would also be less efficient, due to only the central block of buildings warranting the the 500kg bombs.

However, it would be a solid choice for attacking a CV.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: German MW Bombers
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2014, 07:05:51 PM »
Either would fit nicely, but the Ju188 is very much prettier.
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Offline Coalcat1

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Re: German MW Bombers
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2014, 09:02:02 PM »
Big +1 to both of em.

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: German MW Bombers
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2014, 11:07:08 PM »
Either would fit nicely, but the Ju188 is very much prettier.

Oh its definitely prettier, but that pretty face belies its awful bombload. And the 20mph speed difference isn't to be scoffed at. 342mph will leave even fast fighters like the 190D, K4, and P-51 hung up in the rear quarter if they get even a bit impatient.
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Offline Xavier

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Re: German MW Bombers
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2014, 06:26:47 AM »
+1 on both!

...and the He-177 :noid
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Offline Rogue9Volt

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Re: German MW Bombers
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2014, 08:15:40 AM »
One cannot have too many German Airplanes. 

+1
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Offline kano

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Re: German MW Bombers
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2014, 03:14:24 PM »
+1 for both

well researched wish to

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Offline Denniss

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Re: German MW Bombers
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2014, 06:53:34 PM »
According to a Rechlin test report the Ju 188E (BMW 801 engines) did 510 km/h in 5.9 km and 430 km/h, both done with Kampfleistung (2400 rpm, 1,32 ata). No external loads, with four underwing bomb carriers + defensive armament in all 4 positions. No speeds were given for takeoff/emergency power of 2700rpm and 1.42 ata.
The Ju 188A may be faster than the 188E, minimum 50 PS more engine power at better alts + more exhaust thrust. Don't know which engine installation was draggier.

The forward armament in the cockpit was optional. I'm under impression the MG 131 was more suitable for this place while the MG 151 was better in the ring mount so they later changed position - limited space in the cockpit for the fairly large MG 151. The Ju 188E had a MG 81Z in the rear/downward position, that may or may not have been changed to MG 131 in later versions.

The Ju 188 had the same internal load options as the Ju 88: 18 + 10 50kg bombs or aux fuel tanks. The Ju 188F/D were the recon/patrol versions of the E/A bombers.

Do 217: the 342 mph max speed are somewhat questionable, not a lot of engine power for this rather heavy aircraft.

Offline BluBerry

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Re: German MW Bombers
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2014, 06:55:54 PM »
I didn't read that wall of text, but I like you.. so +1.

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: German MW Bombers
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2014, 02:26:57 AM »
Do 217: the 342 mph max speed are somewhat questionable, not a lot of engine power for this rather heavy aircraft.

3452hp isn't a lot of power? And besides, speed wouldn't really have much to do with top speed. Assuming a frictionless environment and that a constant force is applied, the Do 217 could reach escape velocity, yet alone 342 mph.


Provided the airframe was sufficiently aerodynamic, the 603's would be perfectly capable of taking it to 342mph.

You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: German MW Bombers
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2014, 11:58:46 AM »
Looking into it futher, the B-29 has .11hp/lb, while the Do 217 has .17hp/lb at empty weight. At max take-off weight, the B-29 drops to .065hp/lb, and the Do 217 is at .093hp/lb.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline alpini13

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Re: German MW Bombers
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2014, 09:24:28 AM »
+1 :aok

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: German MW Bombers
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2014, 01:30:40 PM »
Ya sure, always a  :aok to a new bomber.
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Offline glzsqd

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Re: German MW Bombers
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2014, 01:51:14 PM »
+1
See Rule #4

Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: German MW Bombers
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2014, 01:58:42 PM »
This is very important, and needs to stay in the public view. To help futher that goal, here are some pictures

Do 217







Ju-188




You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"