p38 L vs J

[olds442]

I was looking in game and talking to some P38 drivers and most seem to think the J is much better than the L. However on the stats page they have the same speed, same climb, and even the same weight @50% fuel. So my question is this:

Why do P38 drivers like the J more than the L when they are the exact same but the L has better role and dive recovery flaps

Also how does the P38 L get boosted ailerons and dive flaps yet not weigh 1 pound more than the J 

[Soulyss]

Although I'm pretty much a G driver these days, between the J and L I always liked the J more.  One reason being I just liked the skins on the J a lot more, I've always like the olive drab look over the bare metal that showed up in later years.  The other was I like how the J handles a lot more than the L, the J also behaves differently around the stall, especially if you're attempted snap rolls and the like.

The weight question is one that has been around for a long time, it would seem obvious that adding a hydraulic system to the ailerons and the dive flap systems would increase the weight but it's actually very hard to find any primary source documents that actually state that.  Most the documentation I've seen all show the same weight, or show weight from a late production run J which would have had the same features as the L more or less.

A few years back there was an effort put forth by a couple players to try and address the "issue" and the result was that HTC realized that they had forgotten some of the weight for the 38G and added 400lbs as I recall.  

[Widewing]

There is nothing related to flying that is different between the two, other than the Dive Recovery Flaps (which do no good if using Combat Trim).

The greatest difference is that the L can load 5" rockets.

Oh, and the J has nicer skins.... 

[FLS]

It's a good question but I doubt the weight of the dive flaps and aileron boosters were enough to noticeably effect performance.

The J and L feel the same to me except the J snap rolls better than the L.

[Randy1]

I keep saying the weight issue is because of the bare metal used on the L compensates for the added weight of the boosters and that is probably close to right.  

At higher speeds the L does out perform the J because of the roll rate.  There is light a lightness to the J you just don't see in the L.  Not sure why that is other than the weights published by AH do not match the model.  Like Soulyss posted, the J outperforms the L at very low speeds.

And don't forget about perk points.  The J is quite a perk farmer and well never be shorted by ENY restrictions like the L does on rare occasions.

Another thought is people give the J more respect.  If a P-38J and a P-38L entered side by side all the reds would jump on the L first.

[FLS]

 Not sure why that is other than the weights published by AH do not match the model.  

The weights are from the flight model.

[bozon]

There is nothing related to flying that is different between the two, other than the Dive Recovery Flaps (which do no good if using Combat Trim).

The greatest difference is that the L can load 5" rockets.

Oh, and the J has nicer skins.... 

Our P-38J have the boosted ailerons?! As far as I recall the J has a much slower roll rate, especially at high speeds, but I may be confusing with the G.

The above posters have the correct answer though - J is better because it has better skins. Same as the reason the D-25 is a better Jug than the D-40.Same as the reason the Spit9 is the best spit (hint: pink skin!). I would never fly a C205 if it was not like flying inside a leopard. The fur you wear counts. Ask any pimp.

[Randy1]

Bozon at higher speeds the L rolls kind of like a P-47.  The J at that speed rolls like it missing an aileron.  The L has boosted ailerons or model wise the J is dampened at higher speeds.

[Randy1]

Here is a curve.

http://www.456fis.org/THE%20P-38/P-38rollchart.JPG

[Widewing]

All P-38s suffer some roll lag (slow initial roll acceleration)... Getting all of that mass rolling takes a little time. At high speed, the L rolls much faster than the others (and should roll faster than the 190s above 350 mph, but doesn't). Boosted ailerons means that the ailerons will not stiffen with speed (until critical Mach, where all control surfaces don't work well).

[FLS]

Our P-38J have the boosted ailerons?! As far as I recall the J has a much slower roll rate, especially at high speeds, but I may be confusing with the G.

The OP had already noted the roll difference and asked why pilots prefer the J handling.

[Widewing]

Here is a curve.

http://www.456fis.org/THE%20P-38/P-38rollchart.JPG

Here's the image....



The P-38J, P-51B and Fw 190A data looks like it comes from a NACA test... I have the test report somewhere....

[Widewing]

Here's the image....

(Image removed from quote.)

The P-38J, P-51B and Fw 190A data looks like it comes from a NACA test... I have the test report somewhere....

Here's NACA Report 868 chart... Different for Fw 190 and less so for P-51B. It is interesting that the 190's roll rate falls off to rather ordinary at high speeds (above 350 mph).

[Nimrod45]

Okay, so if the L & J fly the same other than the L having a better roll rate then why choose the J, other than cosmetics or perk farming because I dont care about either.  In short IS the L a better choice for dog fighting in?

[Delirium]

There is nothing related to flying that is different between the two, other than the Dive Recovery Flaps (which do no good if using Combat Trim).

I disagree... both in the game, and historically, there is a different feel between the two models. Some pilots actually preferred the feel of the early J over the L and I agree with them.

The L wallows at low speed much more than the J which is a bit crisper. At high speed, the L dominates the J in all aspects.