1 GMTAP

[perdue3]

This squadron belongs to 8 MTAD of the VVS Baltic Fleet. It is designated as a torpedo mining squadron. My simple question is did the A-20's (Boston) and IL-4's of this squadron perform torpedo bombing missions in mid 1944? I.E. in the Karelia Campaign of June 1944?

Thank you, any documentation is certainly appreciated.

[bustr]

The only thing I know for the Bostons, is the PBP1 Bomber reticle in my latest Historic Pac, came from a document for their Bostons on how to perform mast head attacks with bombs. The technique was to fly at 200m or lower. Line up the lower 5 tick marks from the water line up to the mast head. When they were the same size, lift up and release.

When you do your internet searches, do you use google and an English to Russian translator program? I had to search in Cyrillic for all of my latest PAK and PBP reticle information. There is a wealth of Russian language info you won't find in English only searches.

I use this one because it has 4 different translators in the program. I've found after you go English to Russian, you need to run it back Russian to English to make sure if you are asking for FAB-100 bombs. You didn't get, angry hookers with black jacks. That got me some interesting Russian pron sites when I was searching for I-16's and their bombs. And some men pay good money for a blackjack beating by a good looking woman.........

http://webtranslation.paralink.com/English-Russian-Translation/

[perdue3]

The only thing I know for the Bostons, is the PBP1 Bomber reticle in my latest Historic Pac, came from a document for their Bostons on how to perform mast head attacks with bombs. The technique was to fly at 200m or lower. Line up the lower 5 tick marks from the water line up to the mast head. When they were the same size, lift up and release.

When you do your internet searches, do you use google and an English to Russian translator program? I had to search in Cyrillic for all of my latest PAK and PBP reticle information. There is a wealth of Russian language info you won't find in English only searches.

I use this one because it has 4 different translators in the program. I've found after you go English to Russian, you need to run it back Russian to English to make sure if you are asking for FAB-100 bombs. You didn't get, angry hookers with black jacks. That got me some interesting Russian pron sites when I was searching for I-16's and their bombs. And some men pay good money for a blackjack beating by a good looking woman.........

http://webtranslation.paralink.com/English-Russian-Translation/

I use books that have been translated. But ill keep the link handy.

[Ack-Ack]

This squadron belongs to 8 MTAD of the VVS Baltic Fleet. It is designated as a torpedo mining squadron. My simple question is did the A-20's (Boston) and IL-4's of this squadron perform torpedo bombing missions in mid 1944? I.E. in the Karelia Campaign of June 1944?

Thank you, any documentation is certainly appreciated.

Are you sure you aren't referring to the 51st or 1st MTAP in the Baltic Sea?  To answer your question in a general manner, the A-20G was used by the 9th Guards MTAP and the 36th MTAP near Norway operating against German conveys in that area, the 1st Guards and 51st MTAP in the Baltic Sea, and the 5th Guards MTAP in the Black Sea.  The A-20G-30 used by the Soviets in their MTAP air regiments were modified with windows in the nose and behind the dorsal turret.  Here is a profile illustration of an A-20G with the 1st GMTAP.



Another A-20G profile from the 1st GMTAP.


Here is a better look at the windows that were placed in the nose.  It's a shot of the members of the 51st MTAP in front of one of their A-20Gs.


Photo of a torpedo getting ready to be loaded on an A-20G at an air base in Lithuania in the summer of 1944.  One site mentions its an A-20G from the 1st GMTAP and another states it's the 51st MTAP.


ack-ack

[perdue3]

Thanks AKAK, I am simply wondering if these units of the 8 MTAP that flew during the Karelia Campaign carried out bombing missions or torpedo missions.

[Ack-Ack]

Thanks AKAK, I am simply wondering if these units of the 8 MTAP that flew during the Karelia Campaign carried out bombing missions or torpedo missions.

That's why I asked if you were sure it was the 8th MTAP, because I couldn't find any listings for an 8th MTAP with the Soviets that flew in the Baltic.  I only found references to the 1st Guards MTAP and the 51st MTAP, which both took part in the Karelia campaign in the summer of 1944.

ack-ack

[bustr]

The manual I found online was the tactical doctrine developed for Bostons using the PBP gunsight for masthead bombing of ships. It was written in 1945 just after the cease of hostilities using the experiences of the Baltic Sea Boston groups shipping bombing during the hostilities.

I find many web sights where Russian nationals as WW2 enthusiasts post manuals you can only find with Russian language searches. But, they ain't translated. So you either copy and paste into OCR software or find an online Russian keyboard so you then can copy and past into that linked translator.

Hours of digital archival work like in the bad old days before computers.

[perdue3]

That's why I asked if you were sure it was the 8th MTAP, because I couldn't find any listings for an 8th MTAP with the Soviets that flew in the Baltic.  I only found references to the 1st Guards MTAP and the 51st MTAP, which both took part in the Karelia campaign in the summer of 1944.

ack-ack

1 GMTAP is Guards Mine Torpedo Unit. This unit was a part of the 8 MTAD (8th Mine-Torpedo Division). 8 MTAD was a division within the Baltic Fleet (VVS KBF). They participated in the Karelia Campaign and 1944 offensive in Finland as you said. My question is however, did these 2 units (51 MTAP and 1 GMTAP) carry out torpedo missions during this offensive? Or, did they simply perform bombing missions with traditional ordnance?

[Ack-Ack]

1 GMTAP is Guards Mine Torpedo Unit. This unit was a part of the 8 MTAD (8th Mine-Torpedo Division). 8 MTAD was a division within the Baltic Fleet (VVS KBF). They participated in the Karelia Campaign and 1944 offensive in Finland as you said. My question is however, did these 2 units (51 MTAP and 1 GMTAP) carry out torpedo missions during this offensive? Or, did they simply perform bombing missions with traditional ordnance?

Oh, okay it was the Division, sorry thought you were referring to an air regiment.  The last picture I posted shows a torpedo being loaded on one of the 1st GMTAP or 51st MTAP A-20G, so I'm thinking they did carry out torpedo missions during the campaign.

ack-ack

[perdue3]

Oh, okay it was the Division, sorry thought you were referring to an air regiment.  The last picture I posted shows a torpedo being loaded on one of the 1st GMTAP or 51st MTAP A-20G, so I'm thinking they did carry out torpedo missions during the campaign.

ack-ack

Ok, I am having a hard time finding what exactly they were torpedoing. I know that they were retrofitted to do it and well trained to do so, but I have no documents on what they did specifically during this battle.

[Ack-Ack]

Ok, I am having a hard time finding what exactly they were torpedoing. I know that they were retrofitted to do it and well trained to do so, but I have no documents on what they did specifically during this battle.

My guess would be against German and Finnish shipping in the Gulf of Finland and in Lake Ladoga.

ack-ack

[lyric1]

Ask these guys they will have the answer.

http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?board=50.0

[Rich46yo]

1 GMTAP is Guards Mine Torpedo Unit. This unit was a part of the 8 MTAD (8th Mine-Torpedo Division). 8 MTAD was a division within the Baltic Fleet (VVS KBF). They participated in the Karelia Campaign and 1944 offensive in Finland as you said. My question is however, did these 2 units (51 MTAP and 1 GMTAP) carry out torpedo missions during this offensive? Or, did they simply perform bombing missions with traditional ordnance?

To the best of my knowledge the 1944 operations by the Soviet AF against the Finns were tasked with 1, Destroying or reducing the Finnish AF, tactical bombing of rail infrastructure to weaken reinforcement at the front, air cover for the advancing Soviet Divisions, and some terror bombing of Helsinki to weaken Finnish resolve. I dont think the Soviets ever really did but the Finns ended up being to smart to side with a loser. Nor did the mighty Soviet war machine ever destroy the FAF, by then flying more advanced 109's like the G2.

I always thought the PE2's and Lend Lease mediums always used standard Ords for these missions. Most of all since the Soviet Navy and submarines were active in the Baltic. If torpedo attacks were used I'd sure like to see the material on them. Very nice pic's and drawings of Soviet A20s BTW.

[bustr]

Do a search from google with this: 1 МТАП ВВС из 8 МТАД

Use Google translate of the web pages that come back. One of them I looked into chronicles the 1 МТАП ВВС Boston torpedo operations a bit. That was your question......

[Ack-Ack]

I always thought the PE2's and Lend Lease mediums always used standard Ords for these missions. Most of all since the Soviet Navy and submarines were active in the Baltic. If torpedo attacks were used I'd sure like to see the material on them. Very nice pic's and drawings of Soviet A20s BTW.

July 16th, 1944 two pairs of A-20Gs of the 1st Guards MTAP, along with Pe-2s from the 12th Guards attacked and sunk the German anti-aircraft cruiser Niobe in the port of Kotka.  Niobe was hit by both bombs and at least one torpedo dropped from the A-20Gs.

ack-ack