machine guns that work

[ONTOS]

When an airplane is on the ground, the manned guns won't fire, yet the guns in fighters will fire while on the ground.This is backwards (at least it was during the Viet Nam conflict).The guns would not fire until the landing gear was retracted to throw a switch to give power to firing system.(now back to WW II)The manned guns on a B-17 have no switch, the gunner could fire any time.Make these guns able to fire when on the ground.Of course the guns on WW II fighters maybe could fire on the ground, but give the gunners a chance.

[Coalcat1]

HTC did this so we wouldn't have manned B17 ack I believe...

[Randy1]

Seems like I read a past thread that said it is done that way to stop the use of bombers as runway gun platforms.

Irritating though when you strafed on the runway with no defense.

[Tinkles]

HTC did this so we wouldn't have manned B17 ack I believe...

That is correct. Players would deack a field then land their bombers on the field and use them to vulch/ack platforms.

[Karnak]

HTC did this so we wouldn't have manned B17 ack I believe...

Exactly so.  This was implemented to stop the use of B-17s as spawnable AA batteries, something that had become commonplace.

It is a shame that it had to be done though. I remember shooting an La-7's tail off as it tried to vulch my Il-2, something that can no longer be done.  As to WWII, I don't think there was a mechanism to stop fighter guns from being armed and fired while on the ground.

[Lucifer]

That switch existed on the 262, others i dont know.

It was due to the tremendous dmg the 4x30mm cannons could do on an airfield.

Exactly so.  This was implemented to stop the use of B-17s as spawnable AA batteries, something that had become commonplace.

It is a shame that it had to be done though. I remember shooting an La-7's tail off as it tried to vulch my Il-2, something that can no longer be done.  As to WWII, I don't think there was a mechanism to stop fighter guns from being armed and fired while on the ground.

[Nathan60]

Seems like I read a past thread that said it is done that way to stop the use of bombers as runway gun platforms.

Irritating though when you strafed on the runway with no defense.

yeah would be nice to rocket vulch about5 b17 aa sites.

[XxDaSTaRxx]

HTC did this so we wouldn't have manned B17 ack I believe...

He was a smart man for not giving me that ability. I'll still up on a furball field and end you though!  

Come at me coal, I know how much you loooovee my gunshipping  

It just takes me time to get airborne, that time is when I am a sitting duck waiting to be pecked at by vulchers.  



Actually, this whole B-17 manned ack thing could have been avoided. How about we use some common sense and drop the bomber hangers too? But no, you like your A-20's to vulch, don't ya?

I see no reason in having this. If you're too lazy to not drop a bomber hanger or two then I'm not sure why you're playing AH.

[bustr]

In a way, it would only be fair to bomber pilots to give them back their equivalent of the GV commander's gamey mode. It might be the only possible way while the fighter hangers are down for two players teaming up to lean out the vulch crowd over their capped field.

We do get kind of gamey and ruthless in our ADHD vulch light mode. And if a B17 or other bomber wants to park and shoot at you, well, we do destroy the guns on M16, wirbel and osti in a single pass with Zeros and Brewsters. The 410 and Yak9T would take care of parked bomber ack stations with single shots. Rocket vulching would get more fun. Tankers would race from the spawn to get within max range to start lobbing rounds and get parked bomber kills.

Since the ability to shoot from gunner positions on the ground was disabled, our game has gotten much more dangerous for anything but a wirbel or osti to be a parked ack station. Personally I'm more scared of tank commander mode than bombers with active gun positions while on the ground.

[Butcher]

In a way, it would only be fair to bomber pilots to give them back their equivalent of the GV commander's gamey mode.

Difference is Tanks can't defend themselves from aircraft, B-17s can be Death stars otherwise. this is no way fair to even compare either.

[Scca]

Spawn, shoot at planes, .ef before they kill ya...   Yes, I agree with the no work on the ground premiss.

[bustr]

I guess everyone is in agreement they don't want to give up those risk free kills on just spawned bombers.

As for all the other annoying things bombers used to do with active guns on the ground. Unlike GV doing it, you have many more options of lighter armament to kill them with including using a single .303 or .45 to kill the bomber "commander".

If a B17 pilot decides to park in your bomber hanger and spray you guys as you spawn fighters. It's no where as bad as an M16, wirbel or a tiger when they do it. The B17 cannot pickup or be delivered a resupply by M3, so it's ammo is limited. As for an ack station on the spawn, you guys have rockets, taters, bombs, MG and 20mm. When did we turn so wussy in this game about vulching stationary aircraft on the ground? Still I haven't seen anyone in about 6 months drive a B25H off into the bushes and kill M3. I think it was NathBP I last saw doing it and he saved our field from being captured.

I guess gamey is good when it's your country and your guys. I would much rather attack tanks with an IL2 historically at low level sub 100. But, 60 degrees cracks the engine hatch killing most tanks in one pass. I always thought of death stars as entertainment, not anything serious to the life and death struggles to win the map in a kiddy game. Now that 20mm in the He111 might be interesting for the 5 seconds it would survive sitting at the runway spawn.

[Helm]

Wolfgang Falck said in his book that his Bf-110 unit was sent to shoot up an air field.  If i remember correctly it was in Norway.  They shot up the Base and loitered over the target.  Paratroopers were supposed to land on the field and capture it.  Falck and his unit was supposed to land and resume operations. from the new base.  Falck hung around till fuel got low and had to make a decision.  With little choice they landed on the airfield and positioned  his planes so that their rear gunners covered the base.  Eventually the Paratroopers arrived over an hour late, much to the relief of Falck and his men.

So there is historical precedent for gunners having active guns on a field.

Helm ....out

[save]

Imagine 20 sets of b17 defending a field .... spread out and moving around the ground so bombs don't hit them so easy ...

[Xavier]

Difference is Tanks can't defend themselves from aircraft

Maingunning, coaxial MG, AA MG mount, 6K icon range, turning from the commander position to face the aircraft at every pass...and I'm not counting Wirbels and Ostwinds, both can shoot you down even before they got in icon range. Tanks can't defend themselves from aircraft?