Author Topic: Gamey Moves  (Read 1094 times)

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Gamey Moves
« on: May 06, 2014, 07:57:07 PM »
I'm curious, what is your gamiest move? By this, I mean: what's the move you use most frequently or like best that has no resemblance to a legitimate ACM or real-life tactic?

I'll go first: I've had a positive initial experience with "the porpoise"; a rapid oscillation between positive and negative vertical g as an evasive. It seems to work fairly well.

I also like running to ack (semi gamey) and sitting on the runway, finger poised on "end sortie" to try to draw a vulcher into ack. I always smirk if I end as his engine gets oiled. Then I'll go back to the runway and take off after him.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline Nimrod45

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Re: Gamey Moves
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2014, 08:52:07 PM »
 :OAre you serious, you my freind have a set!!  Get ready for the fireworks!!!!!!!! :x :x :x :banana: :banana: :banana:

Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Gamey Moves
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2014, 09:22:38 PM »
Surely, you jest, Nim. This clientele has seen it all, done it all. I think it's actually the more junior players who expect realistic play all the time. Don't get me wrong. When I fight, I try to win by better maneuver and by taking advantage of my aircraft's strengths. However, I'll pull out the stops to avoid dying and giving the sob the satisfaction of killing me.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline Shamus

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Re: Gamey Moves
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2014, 09:26:32 PM »
Some say the negative g pushover is gamy. I use that a lot.

shamus
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Offline RotBaron

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Re: Gamey Moves
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2014, 09:28:51 PM »
How does the porpoise do anything to spoil someone on your 6? You're just letting them gain on you, no?

Porpoise is moderately effective against getting hit by ack for me.

For some reason, although, rarely do I see my ack damage vulchers on me  :noid

Other way around, I'm almost always ded, guess they know how to avoid ack much better than I.
They're casting their bait over there, see?

Offline BnZs

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Re: Gamey Moves
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2014, 09:30:41 PM »
Some say the negative g pushover is gamy. I use that a lot.

shamus

Single negative G pushover was a known "oh crap!" dodge. But blackout to redout multiple times? I'm skeptical?
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."

Offline Puma44

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Re: Gamey Moves
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2014, 11:31:51 PM »
An unload to push out of plane from an attacker is a valid maneuver, but negative to red out tends to be an unnecessary panic move. 



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Offline danny76

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Re: Gamey Moves
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2014, 02:50:22 AM »
Some say the negative g pushover is gamy. I use that a lot.

shamus

Mig 28's can't do a negative G pushover :old:
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Gamey Moves
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2014, 04:37:10 AM »
Without question stick stirring. It smells like 3 week old road kill.
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Offline Slate

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Re: Gamey Moves
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2014, 12:04:05 PM »
   Although this tactic is gamey I feel it justified to combat the hording field vulchers. Your field is deacked and they are just waiting for fools to up so they can vulch them as soon as they pop on runway.
 
   So I up on runway, engine off so you can hear them diving in. It also helps to be in F3 mode. Bring up map and put cursor on end sortie. You can see or hear them coming in to strafe so you tower out landing successfully. You can fire a few rounds sometimes striking the enemy before you tower. I've gotten quite a few kills this way and sometimes they just auger anyway. After towering out you can pop back in same spot firing guns as the vulcher passes over also.
     This may make them waste ammo, get frustrated or allow another friendly time to get in air.  :aok
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Offline Lucifer

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Re: Gamey Moves
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2014, 03:21:25 PM »
The famous "up and down" move : it always makes me laugh and it doubles my pleasure when i score a kill on a guy that uses it !  :rofl

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Offline Wiley

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Re: Gamey Moves
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2014, 03:35:49 PM »
I've landed at a capped field trying to suck a guy into a vulch attempt my share of times.  I usually don't do the porpoising or negative G stuff because most of the time there are better options available to me.  I've intentionally thrown a plane into a spin while defending a BnZ to kill air speed with the intent to recover as the guy overshoots to get a shot at him, but that's extremely situational.  Again there are usually better options available to me.

Wiley.
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Offline PJ_Godzilla

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Re: Gamey Moves
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2014, 06:00:11 PM »
   Although this tactic is gamey I feel it justified to combat the hording field vulchers. Your field is deacked and they are just waiting for fools to up so they can vulch them as soon as they pop on runway.
 
   So I up on runway, engine off so you can hear them diving in. It also helps to be in F3 mode. Bring up map and put cursor on end sortie. You can see or hear them coming in to strafe so you tower out landing successfully. You can fire a few rounds sometimes striking the enemy before you tower. I've gotten quite a few kills this way and sometimes they just auger anyway. After towering out you can pop back in same spot firing guns as the vulcher passes over also.
     This may make them waste ammo, get frustrated or allow another friendly time to get in air.  :aok

Ah, yes, a nice variation on my theme... I hadn't thought to kill engine but then, half the reason I started this thread was to learn how to improve my gamey moves. Generally, I'm too honorable and forgiving. You, however, are my kind of scum. +1to your bad self. As for the negative g, remember what Hartman said regarding his last-ditch evasive. I also believe the move was used by that f-8 pilot in the famous "last gunfighter" dogfight featured on the show of similar name.
Some say revenge is a dish best served cold. I say it's usually best served hot, chunky, and foaming. Eventually, you will all die in my vengeance vomit firestorm.

Offline morfiend

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Re: Gamey Moves
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2014, 06:20:06 PM »
Mig 28's can't do a negative G pushover :old:


   This is incorrect I was..err We were in a negative 4g dive with a Mig 28!



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Offline BnZs

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Re: Gamey Moves
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2014, 10:58:17 PM »
How does the porpoise do anything to spoil someone on your 6? You're just letting them gain on you, no?

In combination with rudder kicks and rolls it becomes very difficult to hit, and it lets them survive until they 1. Begin to outrun you with superior acceleration, (seen this happen with Yak3s against P-51s alot) 2. You get shot off their tail, 3. They let you get real close and then pull a better move for overshoot.

For instance, consider a P-47 making a guns pass on a Spit16, or any other typical BnZ energy vs. angles matchup. Classical ACM would call for an energy conserving  break turn to spoil any tracking solution by the Jug, and an out of plane jink (roll and point the wingtip at him) if the Jug lines up a snapshot. Repeat until E states equalize and the turn fighter can take the offensive. However in this case the Jug has some time to react to the maneuver and may 1. Line up a successful gun snapshot or 2. Go vertical with extra speed and reset, against an opponent who has bled at least some of their E in a break.

Now imagine the same Jug barreling in on a Spit16 doing the land trout routine. The Spit is very difficult, sometimes nigh impossible to hit, yet it is never forced to commit to the sort of break turn that in the above example would allow either a plausible snapshot at a planform or a vertical reset. As the range closes it may finally commit to an abbreviated classical defensive maneuver, which the Jug pilot no longer has much of a window to react to. By using this maneuver the defending fighter can be nigh impossible to bring down and ALSO get a flight path overshoot while remaining on a the same heading as the attacker with more speed than if they had defended with at least 90 degrees of break turn-at least this it the energy situation if the defender is in a Spit! Read they are right in the former attacker's rear hemisphere. The former attacker has limited separation in speed now and it may be suicidal for him to go vertical at this point.

However, without the willingness or ability to rapidly go from stick-in-gut to stick-to-the firewall again and again in pitch axis, any form of stick stirring becomes far less effective. Only with a significant roll rate advantage can planes "stir" effectively, and this still isn't nearly as maddening as roll and rudder in combo with the "porpoise". By comparison, WITH the porpoise, even horrible rollers like the Typhoon can frustrate planes that roll better.
"Crikey, sir. I'm looking forward to today. Up diddly up, down diddly down, whoops, poop, twiddly dee - decent scrap with the fiendish Red Baron - bit of a jolly old crash landing behind enemy lines - capture, torture, escape, and then back home in time for tea and medals."