Convergence

[Ack-Ack]

also...Aim for the pilot...

Personally, I advise aiming for the wing root area as it's the area on the plane where you're more likely to get a catastrophic hit on the first burst, and at the least a critical hit like flight surface damage or wounding the pilot.  It also provides a larger area to aim for than the cockpit.

ack-ack

[Raven3]

Personally, I advise aiming for the wing root area as it's the area on the plane where you're more likely to get a catastrophic hit on the first burst, and at the least a critical hit like flight surface damage or wounding the pilot.  It also provides a larger area to aim for than the cockpit.

ack-ack

Well, right now I'm lucky if I can hit the ground. 

[Rogue9Volt]

Well, right now I'm lucky if I can hit the ground. 

Have you gone in the TA and played with the Lead-computing-gun-sight?  It's very easy to use, and will show you where to aim.  I like to pop in there and use it for a half hour or so every couple of weeks, to remind myself how much lead to pull.

In the TA, you hit Ctrl-tab to turn on friendly targeting.  Then hit the tab key to target the pane in your view.  Then it places cross hairs out in front of the targeted aircraft to show you where to shoot in order to hit the target.

[ink]

Personally, I advise aiming for the wing root area as it's the area on the plane where you're more likely to get a catastrophic hit on the first burst, and at the least a critical hit like flight surface damage or wounding the pilot.  It also provides a larger area to aim for than the cockpit.

ack-ack

 

I like the explosion 

[mtnman]

I set my convergence on the .50s to 500 to get the guns pointed up a little bit and help with lead. This will particularly come in handy when you quickly drop on an opponent and he does a break turn. You don't have to pull as much lead and can shred them pretty quickly with 6 .50s with their whole plane in view.

This "technique" doesn't work as you suggest; at least not on wing mounted guns (including the 50's).

Setting your convergence for 500 yards doesn't "get the guns pointed up a little bit"; it actually gets the guns pointed DOWN a little bit, so works contrary to your stated intent.

To point your guns up a little, it's necessary to bring your convergence point IN.

[mtnman]

I don't believe our rounds go over the sight line enough to make a difference.

They definitely do go (or have the ability to go) well over the sight line.  The in-game balistics are not dependant upon the sight line, but rather behave much more realistically.

Many of our notions regarding the sight line (LoS) are based on our knowledge of how bullets behave compared to the LoS with rifles, etc (which most / all of us are more familiar with on a hand's-on basis). 

With wing-mounted guns the bullets behave the same as rifle bullets, but the end result is massively altered by the pilot's LoS compared to the rifle shooter's LoS.  With a rifle, the LoS is only an inch or two from the level of the barrel.  With wing-mounted guns, the LoS is MUCH higher; nearly 60" above the barrels in a plane like the F4U.

With a rifle sighted in a 300 yards, the bullets will be hitting 3ft or so LOW at 600 yards (just a rough estimate, I haven't consuled my charts recently). 

With wing mounted guns in an F4U sighted in at 300 (300 yard convergence), the bullets will be striking 4-5' HIGH at 600 yards.

[Raven3]

Have you gone in the TA and played with the Lead-computing-gun-sight?  It's very easy to use, and will show you where to aim.  I like to pop in there and use it for a half hour or so every couple of weeks, to remind myself how much lead to pull.

In the TA, you hit Ctrl-tab to turn on friendly targeting.  Then hit the tab key to target the pane in your view.  Then it places cross hairs out in front of the targeted aircraft to show you where to shoot in order to hit the target.

Thanks. I will sure give that a try.

[Patches1]

"...What you see is what you get..."

This quote is how I set my convergence nearly ten years ago...and I still fly with the same convergence with all guns and cannons. Yep! I don't change my convergence for anything.

Why? Well, I just got used to the convergence settings and adjusted my flying from there. There is no "magic convergence" that will give you sure kills each and every time you shoot in each and every situation, but good Situational Awareness, Basic Flight Maneuvers, and Air Combat Maneuvering will give you good firing solutions if you learn to fly and recognize good shot opportunities whilst knowing the sight picture of your convergence setting.

To put this simply, in order to shoot anyone down, regardless of your convergence setting, you must first out fly them! It is really that simple. No matter what convergence you set for cannons, or guns, you must first out fly your opponent before you can employ your weapons.

Earlier I mentioned knowing what your sight picture was for your convergence setting; this is where you and your convergence setting must become one. You must learn what the optimum picture looks like, and what the marginal picture looks like, and by doing so you learn to fly your aircraft to its convergence, rather than flying an aircraft with guns, or cannons set at a convergence and then firing.

Well, what about mixed weapons systems, guns and cannons on the same aircraft? No matter, I set them all for the same convergence. It's really all about flying and how you fly to bring your weapons to that optimum sight picture at your selected convergence.

My convergence setting is 275, for everything. No matter what aircraft I fly, no matter what weapon system the aircraft has, 275 is my convergence setting, and I will learn to shoot down opponents at that setting. Learn to fly the aircraft at its convergence, rather than learning to fly the aircraft, then learning the guns at convergence, then learning the cannons at convergence, then learning to fly the aircraft to the guns convergence and then to the cannon convergence and then to the mixed gun and cannon convergence and then learning all of the differing convergences you set for various aircraft.

And, yes, I shoot down bombers with my 50 cals set at 275... I've shot down lots of bombers!

Pick a convergence setting and learn to fly to it.

[FLS]

They definitely do go (or have the ability to go) well over the sight line.  The in-game balistics are not dependant upon the sight line, but rather behave much more realistically.

Many of our notions regarding the sight line (LoS) are based on our knowledge of how bullets behave compared to the LoS with rifles, etc (which most / all of us are more familiar with on a hand's-on basis). 

With wing-mounted guns the bullets behave the same as rifle bullets, but the end result is massively altered by the pilot's LoS compared to the rifle shooter's LoS.  With a rifle, the LoS is only an inch or two from the level of the barrel.  With wing-mounted guns, the LoS is MUCH higher; nearly 60" above the barrels in a plane like the F4U.

With a rifle sighted in a 300 yards, the bullets will be hitting 3ft or so LOW at 600 yards (just a rough estimate, I haven't consuled my charts recently). 

With wing mounted guns in an F4U sighted in at 300 (300 yard convergence), the bullets will be striking 4-5' HIGH at 600 yards.

A 300 yard zero at 600 yards is giving you a 20' x 40' pattern with 6 guns. I'm not seeing an advantage in setting convergence to try to improve lead angles.

[mtnman]

A 300 yard zero at 600 yards is giving you a 20' x 40' pattern with 6 guns. I'm not seeing an advantage in setting convergence to try to improve lead angles.

Exactly.  There's no lead angle advantage to gain with adjusting your convergence.

However, that wasn't what I was pointing to with my post.

[FLS]

Exactly.  There's no lead angle advantage to gain with adjusting your convergence.

However, that wasn't what I was pointing to with my post.

The context was reducing required lead. You quoted my comment as if you disagreed. 
That can confuse people.   

[bustr]

P51D

1. - Offline in TA map feild A1, parked at end of the runway facing north.
2. - Main gear just down the north cliff slope to raize the tail, datum line (CL) at 0 azimuth.
3. - Engine off.
4. - Convergence, all guns tested at 300 and 600.

Factory harmonization for the P51D was 300yds with the K14 set to "High Postition". The K14 had a sight high and sight low alignment setting. The gun convergences were 250, 300, 350. This was to achieve a maximum saturation pattern inside the maximum effective combat range for the AN\M2, and air combat effective range . The maximum effective range for the AN\M2 fired from a fighter at other moving aircraft was 1200ft(400yds).

A point about the offline target.

If you bring the target up with no azimuth setting, it will sit leveled to the datum line of your aircraft regardless of the datum lines AoA. Then if you fly on auto pilot at a speed which sets the AoA so that the datum line is level with the ground. You can draw an invisible line through your aircraft's datum line and the red horizontal line on the target.

Instead, it's easier to park your aircraft with it's wheels slightly downslope on a cliff off the end of a runway to level the datum line to the target's red horizontal line. Now you have a "bore sighting" stand. And if you have a Mil calibrated bore sighting gunsight like I do. You can create the charts below.

P51D 300yd & 600yd Convergence

CL - Target's Red Horizontal Line\Aircraft's datum line.
K14 - Center of the gunsight.
Gun - Impact center point of all gun patterns at range.
+ = Above
- = Below

300yd Convergence
Range-----K14 vs CL-----Guns vs K14-----Guns vs CL
100------(+19.8in)-------(-25.2in)-------(+9.0in)
200------(+10.8in)-------(-14.4in)-------(-7.2in)
300-------(00.0in)--------(00.0in)-------(00.0in)
400-------(-7.2in)--------(00.0in)-------(-7.2in)
500-------(-9.0in)--------(-9.0in)------(-18.0in)
600------(-21.6in)-------(-21.6in)------(-43.2in)

600yd Convergence
Range-----K14 vs CL-----Guns vs K14-----Guns vs CL
100------(-10.8in)-------(-25.7in)------(-39.6in)
200------(-50.4in)-------(-10.8in)------(-61.2in)
300-----(-102.6in)--------(00.0in)-----(-102.6in)
400-----(-129.6in)--------(00.0in)-----(-129.6in)
500-----(-189.0in)--------(00.0in)-----(-189.0in)
600-----(-205.2in)--------(00.0in)-----(-205.2in)

[bustr]

Here's some F4u-1A hardstand bore sight fun. Yes and in WW2 nomenclature MntMan, it was called bore sighting when the plane was jacked up on a hardstand. Harmonizing was the process of bringing the guns vertical and horizontal convergence together with the gunsight line of sight to form a shot pattern at a set range with the gunsight line passing through the center.

F4u-1A

300yd Convergence
Range-----Mk8 vs CL-----Guns vs Mk8-----Guns vs CL
100------(-5.4in)-------(-36.0in)-------(-41.4in)
200-----(-50.4in)-------(-14.4in)-------(-64.8in)
300----(-102.6in)--------(00.0in)------(-102.6in)
400----(-144.0in)-------(+21.6in)------(-122.4in)
500----(-198.0in)-------(+36.0in)------(-162.0in)
600----(-237.6in)-------(+32.4in)------(-205.2in)

[mtnman]

The context was reducing required lead. You quoted my comment as if you disagreed.  
That can confuse people.  

I was only referring to your comment about the rounds coming above the LoS.  Your statement that they don't come above that line enough to make a difference is incorrect depending upon the gun platform and the chosen convergence setting. They can come WELL above that line.

When it comes to assisting with lead you're correct, it isn't going to be helpful, and even if it was it would be a net loss of effectiveness once you factored in the horizontal aspects of the bullet grouping...

[TonyJoey]

This "technique" doesn't work as you suggest; at least not on wing mounted guns (including the 50's).

Setting your convergence for 500 yards doesn't "get the guns pointed up a little bit"; it actually gets the guns pointed DOWN a little bit, so works contrary to your stated intent.

To point your guns up a little, it's necessary to bring your convergence point IN.

I'm thinking the guns would have to be pointed up a little bit to all converge at 500 yards, so that shots at 200 or 300 are on a higher part of the bullet arc.