Bomber Combat simulation in Aces High

[Karnak]

What are you asking for, muzik?  How do you think bomber's ought to be in AH?

[Rich46yo]

Bombers are only as safe as the gunner is good.

Not exactly. The plan itself must be sound. The attack must use the strengths of the actual Bomber type. There must be coordination between the Bombers and fighters.

In other words you never find me low in a conga line , or in a conga line period, and Im always typing situational info to my fellow Rooks. That or speaking Intel on the vox, trying to coordinate. See guys like Lusche will take the time to set up on Bombers correctly. Most will simply come in flat and then blame their deaths on the balance being to much to the bombers. The reason I make it to target so much is the laziness of the enemy. Last night I had a 262 come in flat 6 and he started spewing at 1000 yrds until the TUs guns splashed him at 400. Had it been even a moderately skilled player I would have been in a bad way. Against the top bomber killers I'd have been next to helpless.

The balance is perfect right now. Has been for a while. We have just lost a lot of the great Bomber hunters.

[muzik]

What are you asking for, muzik?  How do you think bomber's ought to be in AH?

I didn't ask for anything in this thread, I just responded to some false statements.

Of course my opinion was based on my beliefs about what's good for me or the game and I thought it was obvious how I saw it.

If someone wants to fly a bomber, which is by far the last activity of choice, I don't feel they should be forced to spend hours or years "improving skills" in a novelty of the game.

This game was developed as a "flight simulator" first, not a gunner simulator. It should be optional, not a prerequisite.

Slaved guns are fake and detract from the fidelity of the game. It's a neat idea, which I don't really have a problem with, but it shouldn't be the ONLY option.

It's not good for the game when new players, some of whom could care less about "playing gunner," can't enjoy the most populated and accessible arena UNTIL, gunnery is at a level that in most cases takes a year or more to develop.

[Karnak]

Taking away the slaved guns would make bombers very much easier to kill.  Only a pair of .50s at a time, other than the B-29.

[Brooke]

Being able to man the guns makes bombers much more fun, in my opinion.  Same for being the bombardier, and even the navigator.

[muzik]

Taking away the slaved guns

Who said anything about taking them away?

but it shouldn't be the ONLY option.

would make bombers very much easier to kill.  Only a pair of .50s at a time, other than the B-29.

No clue what exactly you mean by this. I certainly never suggested leaving them with only 1 gunner position to fire at a time.

AI gunners would ALL fire at a single attacker as long as they have a shot and barring multiple attackers. In which case you have a better chance to hit one of them.

Being able to man the guns makes bombers much more fun,

Who ever said otherwise? I said it's ridiculous that you have to pilot, bomb, and gun SIMULTANEOUSLY. Especially new players.

Even with AI gunners, that doesn't preclude the ability to gun for yourself. You could still take any gun position you wanted. All you have to do is say please. That guy in the tail gun is a sucker for good manners. He'll hop right out for you.

[FLS]

The slaved guns are the reason for the single gunner policy. I wonder if it's possible to unslave the guns if more than 1 player joins the flight and then all the positions become available.

[Brooke]

You can have yourself and a gunner both manning different guns.

I remember having Ruah as a gunner in Mediterranean Maelstrom (in Ju 88's).  It was excellent, and we fought our way clear of several attacking Spit V's. 

[Brooke]

Who ever said otherwise? I said it's ridiculous that you have to pilot, bomb, and gun SIMULTANEOUSLY. Especially new players.

Even with AI gunners, that doesn't preclude the ability to gun for yourself. You could still take any gun position you wanted. All you have to do is say please. That guy in the tail gun is a sucker for good manners. He'll hop right out for you.

Except that Hitech has said that they aren't going to implement AI gunners.  So that discussion is moot.

[FLS]

What I'm wondering is if there could be a choice between the current system and multiple gunners up to a fully crewed heavy bomber.

[Volron]

What I'm wondering is if there could be a choice between the current system and multiple gunners up to a fully crewed heavy bomber.

As in: A) Formation, gun for self; B) No Formation (single), crew all guns with people; type of thing?

[FLS]

As in: A) Formation, gun for self; B) No Formation (single), crew all guns with people; type of thing?

Yes. Or one gun crewed, fire all guns. More than one gun crewed, only occupied guns fire, all crew positions open, formation or single. Selectable in flight preferences.

[muzik]

Except that Hitech has said that they aren't going to implement AI gunners.  So that discussion is moot.

There's that inevitable, ht said no.   

[Brooke]

There's that inevitable, ht said no.   

Not inevitable.  There are many things where HTC doesn't say "no", and discussion is then not moot.

But if you still want to discuss AI gunners (even though it's not going to happen), I'm up for it.

I think that AI gunners would be useless except for the brief time the pilot is on the bomb run.  Then, they could be useful throwing out some rounds toward the enemy, if only so that he can't be sure the pilot isn't in the guns still.  Other than that, in my opinion, for playability and for philosophical reasons (that the game should be about humans doing things, not AI doing things), AI gunners should not be as good as human gunners and thus not very useful.

[Gard06]

I have been playing "paying" for this game since day ONE!  There is nothing out there that compares in my opinion, and if there is, I would never trade.  That being said, I will tell any NOOB that bombing is a skill, a skill that is learned over time and only enjoyed by the success you receive by being good at it.  Successful bombing in AH is  not getting  killed going into  a very heavy defended base an killing it.  That is the very essences of what my squad does and what I was tough long ago.  In AH's current model this task is not easy nor boring , it takes patience.  Don't change a thing!




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