Looking at Kill Stats for last tour

[ink]

See Rule #4

[PJ_Godzilla]

What are the 190s tricks in the bag that the Pony doesn't have? I've always thought the two planes were in basically the same boat for the most part.

I was wondering that myself. I mean, we know that the 109 can do some impressive nose standing but, with the 190 the only thing I think of as "special" is the vomit-inducing roll rate. That's great for a violent evasive but the high wing-loading (shared by the Pony - almost) means that a rolling scissor, which, last time I got involved in one didn't demand anything like max roll rate but was rather more gentle, is going to be a helix that arcs downward pretty quickly.

I got into one with a Jug once. He and I remained fixed in each other's view, eerily, at least until he hit the ground. I had pulled out myself just before that. I'm thikning mister spitty can out-scissor the rolling Dora for the same reason it can out-turn it.

[save]

scissoring in front of an A8 without pulling up hard at the same time is bad karma for most planes if the 190a8 have speed.
A snapshot kills easy up to 400 yards if he has 4*20mm.

[BnZs]

See Rule #4

[Reaper90]

All this talk about K4's and Pony D's..... makes me appreciate my Yak 9T. The best of both.

[ink]

See Rule #4

[jeffdn]

That a plane at the same speed can zoom with you is a truism one would hardly think needs stating. Your wording made that very unclear, in fact it made it sounded almost EXACTLY like you were claiming the Mustang would outzoom anything else starting from those speeds. There are numerous planes that can and do dive with a Mustang fairly easily just by opening the throttle and unloading-Corsairs, Hellcats, Jugs, 190s, etc.

At typical MA alts, Spitfires and 109s can easily dive with a pony, as can the C205.

[Debrody]

What are the 190s tricks in the bag that the Pony doesn't have? I've always thought the two planes were in basically the same boat for the most part.

At slow speeds, the pony is a complete dog, out of airfoil its just helpless. For "over-pulling" the stick, it wont benefit anything while the 190 is able to do some limited tailwhip moves - true, not as fine as a 109. The pony will never be able to pull a perfect hammerhead at 40mph as smooth and controlled as a 190, possibly because it has pratically no torque to play with. Since i have never ever faced a pony stick who could clearly beat the 190 in a very low speed fight, looks like its a logical consequence that the 190 is better than the pony under 140-150mph.

Above that, the pony wins easily.

[BnZs]

At slow speeds, the pony is a complete dog, out of airfoil its just helpless. For "over-pulling" the stick, it wont benefit anything while the 190 is able to do some limited tailwhip moves - true, not as fine as a 109. The pony will never be able to pull a perfect hammerhead at 40mph as smooth and controlled as a 190, possibly because it has pratically no torque to play with. Since i have never ever faced a pony stick who could clearly beat the 190 in a very low speed fight, looks like its a logical consequence that the 190 is better than the pony under 140-150mph.

Above that, the pony wins easily.

Interesting

One would *think* the P-51D should hammerhead well since it seems just a bit unstable in yaw, ball goes over to the left every time one puts on the Gs. Maybe not enough rudder authority?

[LCADolby]

The P51 rudder is very lacking

[TonyJoey]

Neat and clean hammerheads don't usually happen in a 51, as the torque will pull you out of phase very easily and the rudder is pretty weak. However, it does have some nasty moves up its sleeves. If you've ever seen the Dogfights episode with the 51, and know the maneuver Don Bryan was able to pull off on a trailing 109, that move is possible in AH and can be a mean surprise for a trailing con when you decelerate so quickly.

[Widewing]

For air to ground, especially against armor, I prefer the F6F-5. It can go from air to ground to air to air quick enough. Since much of my flying is defensive (my preference, in general), being able to handle fighters while down on the deck is important to me. And, the F6F-5 can tackle enemy fighters quite well.

Two 1,000 lb bombs, and six 5" rockets if you want (I usually don't bother). It carries the same ordnance load as the P-51D. It also has more MG ammo than the Mustang. Unlike the Mustang, It doesn't have to avoid turning fights with Spitfires, Nikis and Ki-84s. Flying below 3k much of the time, I often have to deal with 190s, P-51s, P-38s and Jugs that have both speed and altitude on me. I rarely lose a Hellcat to fighters. Even fighting from a disadvantage. It's an adequate ride for intercepting bomber raids. Outstanding for killing porkers (no prop fighter can dive away from the Hellcat). It's a jack of all trades fighter.

I haven't had the time to fly yet in the current tour, but last tour I flew the F6F quite a bit. It's rugged, agile and very lethal. Fly it smart, and you can run up good scores.

[GScholz]

What are the 190s tricks in the bag that the Pony doesn't have? I've always thought the two planes were in basically the same boat for the most part.

I was wondering that myself. I mean, we know that the 109 can do some impressive nose standing but, with the 190 the only thing I think of as "special" is the vomit-inducing roll rate. That's great for a violent evasive but the high wing-loading (shared by the Pony - almost) means that a rolling scissor, which, last time I got involved in one didn't demand anything like max roll rate but was rather more gentle, is going to be a helix that arcs downward pretty quickly.

I got into one with a Jug once. He and I remained fixed in each other's view, eerily, at least until he hit the ground. I had pulled out myself just before that. I'm thikning mister spitty can out-scissor the rolling Dora for the same reason it can out-turn it.

The 190D and 51D share a "D", speed and have similar roll rate. However the 190D accelerates much faster and climbs like a rocket. If a 109 and a 51 had a baby it would be the 190D. So the 190D can do a lot more in the vertical, like 109s... AND change direction quicly and dive like a 51.

[LCADolby]

If a 109 and a 51 had a baby it would be the 190D.

Ki61

[GScholz]

Ki61

No, that's a 109 and a Zeke...