Question on p39 37mm vs 109 30mm

[bangsbox]

Question on p39 37mm vs 109 30mm (mk108 i think or mk103, im not sure).

Q: what does more damage p39 37mm or 109 30mm?

also what does more damage mk108 or mk103? and throw in the p39 37mm for good measure.
I know there used to be a site to look at the damage #s but its old info these days.

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

The 37mm does more damage, but the 30mm is better for getting a round on target.



Its not so much about damage so much as how flat and fast the projectile travels. The 37mm on the p39 is a DOG of a cannon round, the 30mm on german rides beat it in ever way, and the 37mm in russian rides make's it and the german cannon..laughable.


A round can do a bazillion bazillion damage, but if it doesn't hit, it does nothing.

[SmokinLoon]

What we do not know is how much damage is done to player controlled vessels (planes and gv's). What we do know if the amount of damage is done to static objects (OBJ). There is a correlation between the damage able to be done to an OBJ vs a plane/gv, but the specifics are only know to HTC.

As for the weapons in question, here is the hard data:

> German Mk 108 gun, firing a 30mm HE projectile, does 11.6 lbs worth of damage to an OBJ.  This is found on the 109G-14, 109K-4, Bf110G-2, 109A-8, Me262, and Me163.

> US M4 gun, firing a 37mm HE projectile, does 17.1 lbs of damage to an OBJ.  This is found on the P39.

> for kicks, the Soviet NS37 cannon, firing either an AP (IL-2) or HE (Yak) round, does 17.1 lbs of damage.  No different than the US 37mm.  HOWEVER, it is flatter shooting thanks to a higher velocity.  

Round for round the US 37mm wins over the German 30mm.  However, there are other attributes not seen in the damage numbers. Rate of fire and ammo load favor the German 30mm in a major way.  The velocity and trajectory are close enough to call a wash, imo (edge goes to US 37mm in both cases though).

FYI: The Me 410 has a 30mm, but it is not the same as the one you speak of here.  It is the Mk 103 and it fires a different 30mm cartridge and its projectile is MUCH faster than the 30mm in question (2800-3000 fps vs 1700-1800 fps).  The 30mm's on the 410 are much more effective than the other 30mm's.  While I have not actually tested the damage vs OBJ, I believe it to be the same but the biggest advantage gained is a much flatter trajectory.

If you PM your email, and this goes for anyone, I will send you a spreadsheet with all of the weapon damages on it. The info on the Trainer's Website is... well.... never mind.  

 

[AKDogg]

Here is a spreadsheet on projectile strength.

Projectile strength chart

[Rich46yo]

Hmmmm, interesting. I had no idea the MK 103 had that kind of velocity. I knew in theory it was supposed to but I thought due to technical problems they had to load it down. With all the ammo available for it in the 410 has anyone tried to find out what the stand off range would be with the MK 103's against the Yank 0.50s in the Heavies. In other words could you stand off 600 to 1,000 from the bombers like you can with the 410s BFG ? Especially with the right sights?

A 30mm shell, at what 100 rnds per gun?, at that velocity sounds very impressive.

[Lusche]

In other words could you stand off 600 to 1,000 from the bombers like you can with the 410s BFG ? Especially with the right sights?

You can stand off way past those distances with the Mk103 . 1.2k is no problem at altitude, and the supreme trajectory means hitting ain't particularly difficult either. Have done that myself a lot of times.

The 50mm BK-5 "BFG" is of course lethal at much longer ranges (yesterday I had shells barely missing my 29s at distances >4k), but you also need much better aim.

[Rich46yo]

Ah, TY. Still 200 30mm shells is an awful lot to throw at a few bombers. One good squirt should take out any Bomber.

Ive been upping them and flying around friendly CVs to test the 30's out but havnt had a chance to shoot long yet. So if your going to protect a HQ would you load the 30mms or the 50 ? Which only has what? 21 rnds?

[Lusche]

So if your going to protect a HQ would you load the 30mms or the 50 ? Which only has what? 21 rnds?

While there are few pilots being a master at sniping with the BK-5 at extended ranges, I personally always grab the Mk-103. It's easier to use and far more versatile.

I generally don't use the 410 for any kind of strat defense anymore, until I have very good reasons to assume (or even know) the enemy is low enough to have a chance in a 410. Far too many strat raiders are flying at very high (beyond 30k) altitudes.
Even at lower (15-25k) altitudes, you need to up way in advance.

[AKDogg]

Here is the spreadsheet I actually wanted to post.  Once you open it up, click on tabs at bottom of spreadsheet for the different calipers.
WWII Gun spreadsheet

[Rich46yo]

OK thanks. Were there ANY LW interceptor platforms the MK 103 was placed on? I seem to remember a 109 or 190 version that had it but the game is all MK 108s isnt it? I suppose I could look or search but why spoil the fun. I remember the MK-101 had success as an anti-armor gun but what happened to it?

Talking like this makes me miss the old Bomber Strat war we had years past. We not only had more HBG squads but a lot more interested in it. I miss flying realistic Bomber streams against the heavy cannon of the LW.

[Lusche]

OK thanks. Were there ANY LW interceptor platforms the MK 103 was placed on?

Other than the Me 410, only a few prototype external installations on the FW 190. The delayed Do 335 would have featured it as an engine cannon in  the A series, the B series would have added two additional wing mounted cannons.
It was a gun way to large to fit in any interceptors of that time.

The Mk 101 was very heavy with only a limited rate of fire, and thus it saw very limited use in a ground combat role (most notably with the HS 129)

[SmokinLoon]

Here is a spreadsheet on projectile strength.

Projectile strength chart

Seriously, no disrespect intended, but that info is older than 2008.  Some of it is non-existent (3 in' HE?), some of it incorrect, (4.5in rockets, 28cm wurfkorper, etc), and it is missing many weapons.

PM your email so you can have more up to date into.   

[Rich46yo]

Yeah I seem to remember the MK 103 on some TA 152's, tho they were probably just test platforms as you say.