US National Insignia - How Dull or Shiny Should They Be?

[Vraciu]

I have been doing my stars and bars as black on the spec map (flat).   I am now working on my second Pony skin and it almost looks better as a semi-flat or semi-gloss (gray on the spec map).   What is the right answer?

Will the aircraft numbers and squadron codes be the same reflectivity as the national insignia?   How about the nose art?   Any input is appreciated in advance.

[Saxman]

Based on the ANA numbers at Simmer's Paint Shop, Insignias White and Blue are matte, while Insignia Red is a gloss. However there's also an Insignia Red on that site with an FS number that points to a non-specular color (US Army Quartermaster Specification #45). Black is for the most part matte, though there's one semi-gloss (Instrument Black) and one gloss, however SPS doesn't specify which black was used for which purpose. That said, I think the gloss black would have been used for night camouflage (P-61s, Black Cat PBYs, P-38Ms, etc.) since the gloss paint would be less prone to giving away the aircraft visually if a spotlight is shined on it.

Some text, such as the U.S. Army stencils on the undersides of pre/early-war USAAF aircraft was done in Insignia Blue, so would have been matte.

However keep in mind, that regardless of whether a color is specular, semi-gloss, or non-specular, there's always going to be a SLIGHT specularity due to the way light interacts with the paint surface, so you don't want to make any of the paint 100% black on your spec map. I'd give lighter colors a slightly higher spec than darker colors for two colors of the same specularity (matte vs. gloss).

[Vraciu]

Based on the ANA numbers at Simmer's Paint Shop, Insignias White and Blue are matte, while Insignia Red is a gloss. However there's also an Insignia Red on that site with an FS number that points to a non-specular color (US Army Quartermaster Specification #45). Black is for the most part matte, though there's one semi-gloss (Instrument Black) and one gloss, however SPS doesn't specify which black was used for which purpose. That said, I think the gloss black would have been used for night camouflage (P-61s, Black Cat PBYs, P-38Ms, etc.) since the gloss paint would be less prone to giving away the aircraft visually if a spotlight is shined on it.

Some text, such as the U.S. Army stencils on the undersides of pre/early-war USAAF aircraft was done in Insignia Blue, so would have been matte.

However keep in mind, that regardless of whether a color is specular, semi-gloss, or non-specular, there's always going to be a SLIGHT specularity due to the way light interacts with the paint surface, so you don't want to make any of the paint 100% black on your spec map. I'd give lighter colors a slightly higher spec than darker colors for two colors of the same specularity (matte vs. gloss).

Perfect.  This is what I was looking for.      Thanks as always, Saxman.   

[Vraciu]

I kinda' like the way the black looks here.  The national insignia is definitely too flat.    Do the numbers need to be flatter or is this okay?  (I haven't spec mapped the gear doors so ignore them.   Too shiny.)

[GhostCDB]

I kinda' like the way the black looks here.  The national insignia is definitely too flat.    Do the numbers need to be flatter or is this okay?

It looks like you stretched that logo. The width x height pixels look disoriented, but it may just be me.

[Vraciu]

It looks like you stretched that logo. The width x height pixels look disoriented, but it may just be me.

It is the angle and a distortion by the skin viewer.  It is like a fishbowl when you zoom in.   You are right in what you are seeing, but that's not how it really looks.  Standby one.  Will post a different shot.

[Vraciu]

Ghost,

Here's a better idea of what the insignia looks like...

[Saxman]

I would lower the spec on the "99" and bump the national insignia a little higher. Like I said, you don't want the spec for those markings to be 100% black, but they should still be identifiably matte in comparison to the bare metal. The black markings should be the least specular, the blue slightly more than that, and the white a bit higher still, but it should be a fairly subtle difference because they're all still non-specular.

For the yellow markings, I'd see what sort of photographic evidence you can find, as there's both matte and gloss yellows without much context of when they were used (FS 13415 is a gloss and noted as USAAF ID markings up through 1943). And as I said, there's both specular and matte Insignia Red (spinner) so I'm not sure which would be the correct choice there, either.

[Vraciu]

I would lower the spec on the "99" and bump the national insignia a little higher. Like I said, you don't want the spec for those markings to be 100% black, but they should still be identifiably matte in comparison to the bare metal. The black markings should be the least specular, the blue slightly more than that, and the white a bit higher still, but it should be a fairly subtle difference because they're all still non-specular.

For the yellow markings, I'd see what sort of photographic evidence you can find, as there's both matte and gloss yellows without much context of when they were used (FS 13415 is a gloss and noted as USAAF ID markings up through 1943). And as I said, there's both specular and matte Insignia Red (spinner) so I'm not sure which would be the correct choice there, either.

 

Will do.  Thanks again, sir.